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WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

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  • WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

    I'm amazed there haven't been any WAR/BLU discussion threads yet. Well, I figured I might as well make one. WAR tanking in the mid levels is practically dead in this era of FFXI's community's history. When you think about it, it's not really surprising why.

    There are currently two main tanking sub jobs for WAR: /MNK, and /NIN. Both have their pros, yet they also have heavy cons attached to them. A WAR/MNK will either be offensive (i.e. use Attack food/Berserk, and/or use Great Axe over Axe + Shield) in which case it'll take more damage than a PLD, or defensive (Defense food/Defender), in which case it'll do somewhat more damage than a PLD. However, PLDs have an edge due to early access to Size 3 shields (whereas WAR is limited to Size 2 at best until 48) and can Cure themselves, and avoid 6-9 hits per fight post-Flash, both of which take a load off of the healers. WAR/NINs can avoid 6-9 hits per fight, but will inevitably get hit, which makes solo tanking with Attack food and Berserk a dangerous proposition sometimes. However, a defensive WAR/NIN won't be able to hold hate well. In addition to that, WAR/NINs can't enfeeble IT mobs like a NIN can, Utsusemi also cuts into their offense, and of course, can't heal themselves. Basically, the only thing WAR has going for them is Break WS debuffing, which hardly anyone appreciates, and is a role that can also be fulfilled as a DD.

    I believe /BLU is, in theory (I say this because my WAR is already 45 and thus I can't go back and test this in the 20-40 range), the best tanking sub for WAR in the mid levels. It all basically boils down to one spell: Cocoon. Most of you already know what it does - it's a Blue Magic spell that costs 10 MP and gives a Defense Up status which lasts for 90 seconds, and increases your Defense by 50%. Cocoon is calculated after Protect and Food (i.e. +25% Defense food + Cocoon results in an 87.5% increase: 1.25 * 1.50 = 1.875) but in the same "step" as Defender and Berserk. That is, Berserk + Cocoon leaves you with a 25% Defense bonus (0.50 - 0.25), not 12.5% (1.5 * 0.75). Not only that, Cocoon will actually overwrite Defense Down buffs such as Dhalmel's Sonic Wave (-50% Defense Down), decreasing your reliance on Erase.

    Anyways, a WAR/BLU eating meat with Cocoon would get "permanent" +25% Attack and +50% Defense bonuses; more Defense than a PLD, yet as much Attack as a DD. On top of that, he/she could use Berserk as often as its up to get a total of ~+56.25% Attack 3 out of every 5 minutes, while still being left with +25% Defense, as much as he would be getting if he were eating Defense food. This would allow the WAR to DD while still retaining tanking Defense levels. With a Great Axe, the WAR/BLU would have about the same DMG/Delay ratio as a WAR/NIN dual weilding axes (remember, I'm talking pre-50), and access to high-damage Sturmwinds or Shield/Armor Break. With Shield Break thrown into the mix, the WAR could not only have high Attack and Defense, but also give the entire party high Accuracy. He also wouldn't have to slow his damage and TP down with frequent Utsusemi recasts. Sure, /MNK gives Counter, HP Bonus, and Dodge, but raw Attack and Defense are more reliable (and in the ammounts that a WAR/BLU can get them, will probably perform better either way.) Also, Counter and Dodge won't help against mob TP moves, nor will Counter kick in during a WS, whereas the increased Attack will boost WS damage. In short, a WAR/BLU could tank while DD'ing almost to WAR's full extenct (I mean, you'd be missing Sneak Attack, that's about it.) As icing on the cake, you could get Beast Killer pretty early on, and equip at least +4 VIT and +4 DEX in spells, which is always nice.

    What about MP? Well, assuming you don't waste your time casting other Blue magic spells, you'd only be using 10 MP every 90 seconds. Pineapple Juices are very cost-effective - they only cost 400G at the tavern in Lower Jeuno, and restore a total of 80 MP at a rate of 1 MP/3 secs (total duration: 4 minutes.) Once you have less than 10 MP, you can just use a Pineapple Juice. Since each juice gives 80 MP, and you'd only need to recast Cocoon every 90 seconds at best (unless you're fighting Dhalmels/Fomors/stuff with Def Down), and each cast only costs 10 MP, it'd take 12 minutes for you to use up 80 MP. In other words, you only need one Pineapple Juice per 12 minutes - 5 juices per hour. 10 Juices would keep you going for 2 hours without having to rest. The only other Blue spell you'd want to use would be Head Butt to stun things, but that would only come in handy against Goblins.

    Now, like I said, I haven't had the pleasure of trying this, since my WAR is already at 45 and as high as it needs to be for my PLD sub; however, I see no reason why this shouldn't work as predicted. Just about the only thing that'd be better would be two WAR/NINs duo tanking, but that's not always an option.

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Armando; 08-06-2006, 09:23 AM.

  • #2
    Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

    WARs are like, (tank) (no thanks)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

      I haven't try WAR/BLU; my WAR is already lvl 58, kinda too late for testing stuff in low and mid level. However, I just finish tanking as level 20 BLU/WAR in a xp party in Qufim . I was eating rice drumpling (+str, +attack, mp healing regen...) and tanking with Cocoon. The hate "can be" very solid, as long as I am "spamming" blue magic. The tool I used for hate is Provoke, Head Butt, Bludgeon, Pollen.

      I think for WAR/BLU tanking with provoke + Cocoon + damage output alone, it may lack a mini-hate-spike tool for hate. What I mean is some ability that I can use every 5 or 10 seconds for hate...

      From that Qufim xp party my hate route for BLU/WAR is:
      Provoke -> Head Butt -> wait 3 second -> Bludgeon -> wait 7 seconds -> Head Butt -> wait 3 second -> Bludgeon -> wait 7 seconds -> Head Butt -> wait 3 seconds -> Bludgeon -> Provoke... (repeat)
      I was hitting the mob with my sword and using Pollen if needed. I was not able to use any WS (low TP gain because of casting, and rest for mp between fight).

      A WAR/MNK at low level hate route is Provoke -> Boost -> Boost -> Provoke... (repeat).

      A PLD/WAR after lvl 37 has Provoke, Flash, Cure, /ja (different PLD has his own unique hate route).

      A NIN/WAR after lvl 37 has Provoke, Ninjutsu: 6 spells for Ni version of elemental wheel, Slow II, Blind II, plus Ichi version of spells... loads of hate tools... gil toss FTW m(._.)m
      (each NIN has his own hate route: some cast more ninjutsu, other may use more DoT and WS)

      A WAR/BLU (DD food/gear + Cocoon) has Provoke + ???

      From my experience, the time (30 seconds) between two Provokes, usually a tank would use some sort of hate tool. For example, a PLD may use a mix of /ja or Flash or Cure between two Provokes.

      If WAR/BLU use blue magic as hate tool, then which spell are we going to use?
      TP and MP does not mix well. Spell casting may slow down DoT.

      Just my 2 gil~
      Last edited by Celeal; 08-05-2006, 10:16 PM.
      Server: Quetzalcoatl
      Race: Hume Rank 7
      75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

        I've been in favour of this combo for a while... writing a little in http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/war...iscussion.html and some other places too.. It's also very very good for headbutt post 24, which while not being super damaging, will still stun as it's based on the accuracy of your G. Axe.. which guess what.. is an A+ rated weapon. Stun won't last long, but it will process just enough to stop a bomb or screwdriver. Not that you'd notice a screwdriver doing 40 damage to you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

          You've found a test case!

          Well I got into a bit of a discussion here about what to sub on the way to 37. I got to 18 with /rng, but my elvaan bow/xbow accuracy was becoming terrible. (war is D rank ranged I think?)

          They opened my eyes to the promise of /drg as a dd sub, as well as /thf, and it ended up with me resigned to level /mnk as well as the only tanking sub. Well
          now you have opened my eyes to another tanking possibility.

          I was soloing toughs in carpenters landing as a lvl 18 rng/blu and barely took a scratch, nothing selbina milk and the occasional pollen couldn't handle. I was guzzling juice as well though, and eating sweet rice cake for the mage stats. Now I think about it, I would have had a healthy +2 vit and +5 evasion from the cakes, as well as resist silence (can't hurt). Dumplings might be better for war/blu though.

          I'm thinking to perhaps use pollen for hate, similar to a young pld, and focussing on damage output. Rice dumplings seem perfect for that, though they will leave me with no mp bonuses, and only around 30mp to play with at 18. Using spells for hate, I think Melon juice would be a necessity for extra refresh, along with a high enough cooking skill to make it on the spot (40s).

          Using a Greataxe over a sword, I shouldn't (hopefully) need as much headbutt/bludgeon spam to hold hate as a blu/war would. Until level 24 I might have hate troubles, but there's no tank at that level that doesn't have a little trouble with hate. With headbutt, that should give me enough tools to hold hate on par with a war/mnk.

          Any ideas on how else to hold hate?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

            While I don't think it'll ever surpass war/mnk in hate levels, I think it's workable. As Spinnthrift said in that other thread, resting just one tick is enough mp for another cocoon. However, I think juice would still make it better/more reliable.

            For keeping hate, I was thinking of the following: Provoke when mob comes in, use Cocoon if it's not up from before (always use it in battle! It has a less than 2 second cast time so it's relatively easy to cast between swings. The act of casting will get you hate.), proceed to DD as normal. Let you cure yourself once and only once. As in, the first time you take enough damage that Pollen won't be wasteful, use it. After that, let the healer do his/her job. So Voke > Cocoon > Pollen >>> no more Blue magic 'til next mob. If you do happen to lose hate, There's always headbutt. I'd be loathe to do this though, as Headbutt costs more mp than cocoon -- more than can be recovered in a single tick's worth of resting mp.

            I'm not really certain that this combo couldn't continue to be incredible, in fact. Or at least, passable. I think any time over level 16, this combo offers ... at least something. With Perma-refresh, and assuming it's true that Headbutt can stun as SJ, I think it could continue to be useful by timing Headbutt before a mob's attacks to effectively Paralyze it every 2nd or 3rd attack round. The problem comes when mobs start hitting Paladins with over-the-top Defense for 60+/swing. The point where the PLDs all start moving towards VIT, but WARs will never reach those VIT levels. So your perma-defender just isn't effective enough. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe that's why Armando says levels 20-40 are it's prime.

            I really wanted to be one of the first people to try war/blu, but I was in a hurry to try to accomplish other things before I deactivated last month. :/

            When I return to the game, time allowing, I'd love to level BLU and try this combo out in Promyvions.
            "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

              Originally posted by Tsikuro
              WARs are like, (tank) (no thanks)
              It's sad, but true. However, this mindset stems from the fact that 1) WAR DDs better than it tanks, and 2) PLDs and NINs will usually get the job done better. That's why I'm proposing WAR/BLU - it would allow WARs to fulfill their DD'ing roles while still tanking.

              As for hate control...I realize WAR/BLU lacks real hate tools, but it SHOULD be able to perform better than most DDs from 16-29, and just as well from 30-50. Meat, Berserk, Attack Bonus, Double Attack, and a Great Axe is all you need to put out good damage. I think being among the top DDs while spamming Provoke should be enough to hold hate. Worst case scenario, throw a THF into the party >.>

              As for using Blue Magic for hate control...well, first off, casting Blue Magic shouldn't hinder your DoT; all physical blue magic are 0.5 second casts, like Flash and Stun. In other words, they hardly detract any time from your attacks at all, and even if they only do as much damage as a normal attack, or even slightly less, it'll actually increase your total damage since it's like squeezing in attacks free of delay. Physical Blue Magic accuracy is dependent on your melee accuracy, so that shouldn't be an issue. As for their damage, that depends on your STR vs the mob's VIT, the mob's Defense, and your Blue Magic Skill - Blue Magic Skill determines the spell's base DMG, and also determines a Blue Magic-specific Attack stat that's checked against the mob's Defense. In short, they shouldn't be spectacular, but the Blue Magic spells would probably do some moderate damage even when subbed. The biggest problem is, honestly, that with so little MP, it's hardly even worth it. However, I certainly wouldn't mind spamming Blue Magic with Mighty Strikes when things get iffy.

              The same applies to self-cures, really. You'll be working with Pollen, which recovers 34 HP. I've always thought of HP recovered and damage inflicted as practically interchangeable when it comes to hate; you're probably better off swinging at the mob for 40-50 damage than wasting 2 secs and 8 MP for the equivalent of a Cure I.
              Originally posted by Lmnop
              If you do happen to lose hate, There's always headbutt. I'd be loathe to do this though, as Headbutt costs more mp than cocoon -- more than can be recovered in a single tick's worth of resting mp.
              Actually, for MP, the first tick of resting gives back 12 MP, exactly what Head Butt costs.

              As for the level range...I really didn't put TOO much thought to it. It should work as early as 16, not 20...I said up to 40, because PLDs and NINs get a major upgrade at 37, and at this point WAR tanking starts to die out, but in retrospect, I see no reason why it couldn't work up to 50, and possibly 60. Why 60? Well, WAR/BLU would be the ideal Lesser Colibri tank - they can get a 50% Defense Buff that can't be eaten! It would definetely put them ahead of PLD's Defense, and their ability to still DD makes them ideal for fast-paced Colibri parties.

              Oh, by the way, if you find yourself in a situation where for whatever reason you want/need to use Blue Magic to attack...remember that while your Attack stat won't increase its damage, lowering the enemy's Defense will. Armor Break could come in handy then, if the mob isn't terribly evasive (or you could use Shield Break to both help land Acid Bolts, and the blue spells.)
              Last edited by Armando; 08-06-2006, 05:49 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                War/mnk is still the superior tank 20-37 hands down. The only thing I tanked as a War that ever gave me problems at those lvls were Dhamels and that was with a Whm without erase while overhunting. The voke > boost > boost > voke method, with counter, will create a LOT of hate with little effort. There will be no reliance on MP so you never need to heal and lose TP or worry about poison and you're still able to do decent DD Dmg as Gaxe's are just that damn strong. Cocoon can be fairly random, especially with a low Blu skill. And with such low MP if you try to use other spells you'll be dry before you know it. Yes juices help, but you'll still need to rest.

                War/Blu is just a higher def, lower MP, less curative version of War/Whm. It can have it's uses, but they are far and few between.
                "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                • #9
                  Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                  Is Dodge effective when subbing monk?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                    @Raidenn: not on IT mobs. In general, Warrior evasion has no effect on exp stuff. This is why it doesn't really hurt to tank with dual viking axes, cavalier's mantle, and some -evasion earrings (I think the most I've tanked with was -60 evasion + Aggressor and dodged just as much as a mithra warrior with nothing but +agi, +eva). However, Dodge is still a JA and as such, pulls hate just activating it. Hence, it serves as "icing on the cake" for war/mnks.

                    @Ziero: As I stated before, I don't think any combo will out-hate a war/mnk. Indeed, even smart paladins (read: Armando) know that war/mnk will typically generate more hate than a pre-flash paladin. However, it has nothing in damage avoidance/mitigation/migration whatever. It doesn't really matter so much 20-37, considering you're not getting hit very hard anyway, but Cocoon will always make you get hit for rediculously small numbers. Bad example, since Mandies are wusses anyway, but they can hit for 20 dmg/hand. So every attack round, they do more damage than Cure 1 can heal back. Now imagine if that were halved. As that's what over-the-top Defense does against them. It's hard because a lot of people want to compare the combo to war/whm, myself included. But if you stop and look at it, it plays differently than any other WAR combo.

                    war/whm with defense food doesn't hit hard enough, has to make up for it by self-curing. Only has 30 mp and is guarenteed to need that much every fight just to try to keep up in hate. War/whm with attack food gets hit too hard and has to cure himself to try to take the burden off of healer but mp won't last long enough. He doesn't DD in the beginning because he's too busy curing himself. Then he plays DD because he's out of mp and because the WHM is tanking.

                    War/blu, just as Armando was suggesting, would be using trivial amounts of mp every fight and the whm would barely be curing him because he has the equivalent of defender + defense food at all times, mixed with attack food-level DD. If war/mnk holds hate as a 9, and war/nin holds hate as a 2, I'd put this combo at 6 or 7. Mind you, we're talking about levels where NINs aren't effective DDs, so I believe the hate levels of this combo would be above a NIN's, even a NIN with Utsusemi: Ni.

                    @Armando (notice I'm too lazy to quote people today): Thanks for the mp rested correction. I always think it's 10. I think I get what you're saying about blue magic for damage, but I kinda hope I don't. You're saying that, even subbed, it basically deals damage based off of your blue magic skill, not your weapon. And that your attack has nothing to do with it's success? Also, does headbutt even deal damage...?

                    EDIT: ok, I took a look at that... one Blue Magic page. I see that Headbutt does deal damage and that it's figured like the blue magics that are actually made for DD. I guess I was hoping that the DD Blue magics (Death Scissors, Bludgeon, Vertical Cleave, etc) were figured that way, but that the ones that deal low damage as a side effect to their sought after effects would be figured differently. But I'm also crazy. Damn, I haven't had spaghetti with meat in it for years... I love this stuff.
                    Last edited by Lmnop; 08-07-2006, 01:17 PM.
                    "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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                    • #11
                      Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                      Is Dodge effective when subbing monk?
                      Yes, although not very significantly.
                      @Armando (notice I'm too lazy to quote people today): Thanks for the mp rested correction. I always think it's 10. I think I get what you're saying about blue magic for damage, but I kinda hope I don't. You're saying that, even subbed, it basically deals damage based off of your blue magic skill, not your weapon. And that your attack has nothing to do with it's success? Also, does headbutt even deal damage...?

                      EDIT: ok, I took a look at that... one Blue Magic page. I see that Headbutt does deal damage and that it's figured like the blue magics that are actually made for DD. I guess I was hoping that the DD Blue magics (Death Scissors, Bludgeon, Vertical Cleave, etc) were figured that way, but that the ones that deal low damage as a side effect to their sought after effects would be figured differently. But I'm also crazy. Damn, I haven't had spaghetti with meat in it for years... I love this stuff.
                      Bingo. For physical Blue Magic, what in a WS would be your weapon's DMG, is calculated using your Blue Magic Skill (Skill * 0.11 * 2 + 3). This part has a cap; for Head Butt, when you get it at 12 BLU, your DMG should be 11, and caps out at 17 (Lv. 22 BLU.) Then there's the stat modifiers, just like in your WS; this part should be in full effect, since it'll be calculated using your main job's stats. Then there's also the usual fSTR stat, which should also be in full effect. All of that gets added and multiplied by the spell's TP multiplier (1.84 at 0 TP/no CA for Head Butt), and finally it gets multiplied by PDIF as usual, except rather than using your real Attack stat, the game uses your Blue Magic Skill to calculate your "Blue Magic Attack" (which is compared to the mob's Defense.)

                      Basically, compared to a 24 BLU, a 24 WAR/BLU would only be missing 6 DMG, but the fSTR and stat modifiers should be just as good, if not higher. As you go up in levels that DMG gap will close, since the BLU already hit the cap at 22. The real question is, how low PDIF will go with half-levelled BLU skill? I'm still in the process of levelling BLU (Lv.19 so far) so I haven't done any experimenting as /BLU yet. Basically, to boost your Head Butt damage, you'd have to lower the mob's Defense (Dia II + Acid Bolts or Armor Break.) Accuracy shouldn't be an issue since it's based off of your main job's accuracy, so the BLU and WAR/BLU should be on even ground (Rice Dumplings ftw.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                        I was planning on juicing the whole way, so a tick resting wouldn't be necessary and headbutt would be usable a couple of times a minute. As for a thf, thats not viable for a good stretch, even early 30's new thfs won't be able to stick hate regularly. War still has the #1 hate tool, voking, and the damage should make up the difference. If a pld or nin has hate trouble, its usually due to being out DD'd, and that shouldn't happen to any great extent. I'll try holding hate like a war/mnk - with DD and provoke, and headbutt to fill for boost. Taking less damage than /mnk should help hold hate too.
                        The problem comes when mobs start hitting Paladins with over-the-top Defense for 60+/swing. The point where the PLDs all start moving towards VIT, but WARs will never reach those VIT levels.
                        Cocoon should help negate this, though switching to shield/axe might be needed, which comes to the crunch, will physical blue magic get the hate and will there be enough mp? I'm gonna find out the old fashioned way ^^
                        Cocoon can be fairly random, especially with a low Blu skill. And with such low MP if you try to use other spells you'll be dry before you know it. Yes juices help, but you'll still need to rest.

                        War/Blu is just a higher def, lower MP, less curative version of War/Whm. It can have it's uses, but they are far and few between.
                        I've found cocoon to be anything but random, and give a consistent buff. +50% def is not to be sneezed at. The war/whm comment is valid on the surface, but it is a far higher defence version coupled with fast casting physical attack magic. The mp cost of the spells involved is fairly low, and juiced up 1mp/tick refresh = 24mp a min, enough for a headbutt between vokes and cocoon between pulls. Any other mp can be used for extra headbutts, and perhaps pollen. Pollen seems fairly worthless though, so less curative won't apply. Overall very different to war/whm, I think.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                          Originally posted by Nazlfrag
                          Cocoon should help negate this, though switching to shield/axe might be needed
                          My point was that defense can only take you so far. I bet that around level 60ish, a War/blu could have defender, cocoon, and the best defense food up and still get hit harder than a PLD with just defense food (both cases having similar defense gear). That's just WHM-grade VIT vs PLD grade. Ok, the Pally may have to toss up defender, but you get the idea.

                          As for Blue Magic damage. It occured to me that you could sorta use headbutt as an Mp-Double attack. Except... you're not getting tp for it. Yet the mob is, so it's closer to Counter. What's interesting is that Greataxe swings would give the mob around 17 tp, but Headbutt would only give it 10. This would be grand if you could count on Headbutt or Bludgeon* to deal greataxe damage or higher, but I strongly doubt this would be the case on anything above Too Weak. I guess this paragraph really had no practical application, just random thoughts.

                          *Bludgeon has me thinking. If magic that inflicts at least 1 point of damage gives monsters 10 tp (I think that's the amount, anyway...), then what about physical blue magic? In particular, multi-hitters like Bludgeon. Before Blue mage, there's never been a "Multi-Hit" Spell, but the physical blue spells are hardly spells so... stuff.

                          Anyone have data on how much tp is given to mobs from physical blue magic? I have a bad feeling that a full Bludgeon will give the mob 30% tp... that would suck.
                          Last edited by Lmnop; 08-19-2006, 04:08 PM.
                          "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                            Bah. I've been internetness for 2 weeks, I didn't mean to let my own topics die out.

                            Regarding Axe/Shield: I really wouldn't recommend this 'til 48. Seriously. That's when you're high enough to use Viking Axe and Hard Shield. A Size 3 shield really makes a difference, whereas Size 2 are just...meh. And you'd at least get Spinning Axe at 49 so you don't have to settle for piss-poor Raging Axe damage. And yes, while I haven't done any formal testing, I've been put in many situations recently in which I want to crank out as much Defense as possible against a DC-EM mob, and from what I've observed mobs seem to have a different PDIF from ours (which seems to go as high as 4.0) and Defense does seem to have diminishing returns for them.

                            Regarding Bludgeon: Two weekends ago, just before I moved to my apartment (thus being internetless) I hit level 20 BLU. Although it initially did put out big numbers like I expected, I was disappointed with its overall performance, at least from the perspective of chaining EMs and low Ts. So far, my strongest spell for raw damage has been Feather Storm, with Head Butt having some interesting and incredibly fun applications. If you look at the Blue Magic spell data, Feather Storm costs 12 MP, has a 30% AGI modifier, and an fTP of 2.0. Bludgeon costs 16 MP, does 3 hits of 1.0 fTP each, and has a 30% CHR modifier. However, Bludgeon doesn't seem very consistent in landing all 3 hits on enemies that are higher level than you (no, I'm not using Sushi,) and Feather Storm counts as a ranged attack, so STR has twice the effect on it as on Bludgeon. Not only that, but it gets a 25% piercing bonus to just about anything that flies, and it does some additional damage through poison. I whipped out BLU/BST to test TP returns, and Bludgeon was definetely giving 10 TP per hit for a total of 30 TP on a full Bludgeon to enemies, as well.

                            Head Butt is a real jewel, though. It lets me escape even long range TP moves. I take the enemy down just enough that Head Butt's damage will push its HP below 20% (usually 25-29% works for me depending on what the mob checks.) After the Head Butt, I immediately run away. Even with the "binding" that occurs from having to wait out the spell animation, the stun lasts long enough that I'm fully out of any of the mob's TP moves's range. At that point, I wait just a little bit for it to catch up, and when I see "Monster readies such and such ability," I pull away again, running out of its range and wasting its TP. It's damage is just above decent, as well.

                            I could see Bludgeon being powerful on undead, though. You'd get the +0.25 to fTP bonus and accuracy bonus from the Arcana vs Undead relationship, as well as a 25% damage bonus from blunt type damage. The fun thing about BLU is that your spells are totally situational. Wild Oats and Sprout Smack are also pretty nice when not fighting vermin, since they do moderate damage for the little MP they cost and their debuffs are useful and potent. Wild Oats is supposed to be -10 VIT and Sprout Smack is supposed to be 15% Slow according to Studio Gobli.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: WAR/BLU - The true offensive-defensive tank?

                              A few data points for you. I use DRG/BLU a bit for solo (75DRG).

                              Cocoon continues to be awesome. It raises my feeble DRG defense enough to cut the average damage per hit from 90 to 60. Head Butt and Sprout Smack are also good, not really for the damage but for the chance of inflicting Stun or Slow. My best Head Butt on a DC did 170 damage. The actual chance of Stunning seems based on my half-level Blue Magic skill, so it seems ~50% on DC, ~25% on IT. Actual accuracy is based on your accuravy with your equipped weapon.

                              While it doesn't help at lower level, the Sanction Refresh effect you can buy in Aht Urghan areas is great for low MP pool/low cost spells, like Head Butt (I use them to trigger Healing Breath). As an added bonus, a lot of higher level DEF food (Tav Tacos, Shllops tropicale) give MP boosts as well.

                              I can see WAR/BLU working in a similar way to a PLD, in that they'd be most effective with a refresher to support them. As a bonus, they can keep Defender and Cocoon up at all times for truely frightening DEF.

                              As an aside, I've Great Axe tanked as a WAR/MNK as late as level 68 vs VT - low IT, and even with DEF food/gear and Defender on did decent damage (better than a PLD at least ) with only a RDM and BLM in support as healers, so I can certainly see WAR/BLU being viable -- if you could find someone to give you a shot. Given the lack of tanks at most levels (and the general lack of WAR/NIN willing to gear as tanks), you might just find someone.

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