Ghetto paladin?

[bikkebakke]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

Man, I remember a time when NO ONE took war past 30 and that was considered a No-no...

Really? I don't remember that... and I've been around since JP release. WAR has always been a good DD.

[framerate]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

Really? I don't remember that... and I've been around since JP release. WAR has always been a good DD.

Well what I think it was is that jobs like NIN and SAM and other advanced jobs were more appealing since at the time most people hadn't leveled an advanced job to 75.

It seemed to me at the time that white mage and black mage were often taken to 75 from the starting pool, but WAR THF and even RDM (surprisingly) were normally thought of as subjobs (on my server). It seemed like the trend was to take a starter job to 30 then take an advanced to 60+ (at least for a while)

Imagine my surprise when I came back a year later to play and saw TONS of WAR/NIN and RDM/WHM at 70+ running around Jeuno...

[SharMarali]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

Really? I don't remember that... and I've been around since JP release. WAR has always been a good DD.

I remember it just fine, and I've been around since the JP release too lol... But he's referring to a slightly different phenomenon than you may remember.

Prior to the English release, there were plenty of high level JP WARs floating about.

When the English release hit, everybody had preconceived notions of various jobs based upon what little information they'd been able to glean from forums and the instruction manual. Most people felt that WAR was strictly a SJ. And yes, a lot of people felt that RDM was "useless." Don't believe me? I was a level 63 RDM the day the english release came out. I was told by a level 1 player in west ronfaure that "RDM is pretty useless, but well, do whatever you like."

People had no idea of the importance of refresh. People still felt that the world was RDM vs. BRD rather than "get what you can and if you can get both, great." And people had crazy notions that WARs weren't as powerful as the other DDs because the majority of the WAR JAs are useable as a SJ.

I also raised WAR to into the low 60's during the time when only a handful of NA players had reached level 75 and many still didn't grasp all the nuances of the game. I know what the NA concensus of WARs was heh...

Your confusion probably comes from the fact that the JP players had been playing for a year before the NA release hit and they already knew things that NA players hadn't figured out yet, so there WERE plenty of WARs running around... But none of them were NA.

[Lmnop]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

although I still love bradygames products. Their FFXI write-up made mincemeat out of Warrior. Every screenshot showed a War using a sword. Every description said WAR = 2nd rate everything. Constant allusions to NEVER taking war past 30 because "it's really better for a subjob." So yea, NAs started out stupid and got worse.

[Shadowfyre]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

As a TaruTaru, war/whm worked quite well up to lv30. I've also experienced leveling wars to 30 using monk or nin. Honestly, I'd have to say monk was the most effective but WHM isn't that bad for tarus.

Of course I'd never dream of using whm passed 30. I just knew that I'd be switching to paladin at 30

[Deltran]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

When i was lvling i used a Great SWord and i did the same or more dmg then war with g.axe but i stoped at 30 so cant vouch for 30-37

[lionx]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

The WAR should be able to outdamage just about ANY Melee once they attain sturmwind aroud the early 20s if they are geared right. I dont see any good damaging GSword WS that can match Sturmwind's power at that level. I was a Taru WAR and i can keep up with other races easily especially with Sturmwind closing fragmentation, i would go so far as to say i was able outdamage them, how much i wouldnt know, but i am pretty damn sure WAR is uncontested at those levels if played right.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

Necro-posting a bit, but the best Sturmwind job at Lv.30 is DRK/WAR with Axe Belt; they can definitely out DD WAR/anything on great axe, all else equal. =b

Also, one of the best WAR I met in Yhoator Jungle was a WAR/WHM, a JP player who changed from WAR/NIN or something to WAR/WHM before we headed out--she anticipated that our RDM/WAR was an idiot and won't backup heal.) She brought different weapons for SC's, acid bolt to lower mob defense, bloody bolts to heal herself, back-up tanked, and kept up with TP for SC while back-up healed the main tank.

I'm not a WAR main, but I really appreciate a WAR's versatility. ^_^

p.s. That said, I'd rather not see WAR's with swords. ^_^;;

[Icemage]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

Pre-30, WAR/WHM isn't totally bad *IF* you know what you're doing.

From a tanking standpoint, WAR/WHM before 20 is actually superior to WAR/MNK at holding hate if you keep yourself juiced to maintain MP levels.

Post-20, WAR/MNK has Counter, which is certainly useful, and an excellent answer in the late-20s if you're fighting Mandragora in Yuhtunga or Yhoator Jungle, but it doesn't really kick in so often that it will outstrip the consistent enmity gain of casting the occasional cure on yourself (again, assuming you're using a lot of juice). This plus the fact that you can keep other party members alive if you lose control of aggro, which is quite common in the below-30 range makes it at least situationally good.

Emphasis on the late-20s range, which is typically spent in the Jungles; I believe WAR/WHM is superior to WAR/MNK in that situation - while a WAR/MNK will counter and take a marginally smaller amount of damage, a WAR/WHM can toss a cure to wake up the party's designated healer if the party is affected by a Mandragora's Dream Flower sleep attack.

Post-30, there's no reason to use /WHM for XP parties - at that point you should level Paladin.


Icemage

[Lmnop]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

the drk/war example... I assume you're talking about using Souleater + Sturmwind? this does, indeed yield pretty nice numbers. I've only seen this done by a drk/nin though since he knew he'd have hate. However, SA is every minute other than every 6. I wouldn't be surprised if you counted up sturmwinds over the course of an hour, if the war had higher average sturmwind damage. Every single Sturmwind from a war/thf has the potential to get SA while DRK gets it once every 3-4 Sturmwind or so.

Icemage, I guess I disagree with this although I see what you're saying. Ultimately, this would depend on length of fights. with limited MP pool, even juices won't sustain a war/whm infinitely -- especially at those levels. I think after the first fight, not even juice would be enough to allow them to cure enough to out-hate boost.

Considering I'm still of the opinion that war/mnk holds hate better than pld/war all the way to 37, I don't think a ghetto pld would be any better. But meh, we'll agree to disagree. ^_^

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ghetto paladin?

However, SA is every minute other than every 6. I wouldn't be surprised if you counted up sturmwinds over the course of an hour, if the war had higher average sturmwind damage. Every single Sturmwind from a war/thf has the potential to get SA while DRK gets it once every 3-4 Sturmwind or so.

Hmm. I did forget about SA (which is bad, since THF's my highest. lol). I take it back; looks like WAR/THF will out shine DRK/WAR on Great Axe at Lv.30, if a bit lower on accuracy.

I'm still of the opinion that war/mnk holds hate better than pld/war all the way to 37

I have PLD29 and WAR31 and have tanked on both; I'll have to say if WAR/MNK is a better at gathering enmity, it's a very slight difference. It takes more skill to tank on PLD/WAR than WAR/MNK, though; timing the cures definitely took some getting used to. I love Shield Bash, so I'm biased toward PLD tanking, I guess. =b