SATA agi or dex?

[rshermaniv]

I'm currently level 48 using VB, and I'm wondering which stat would be best to increase to maximze SATA damage. I'm thinking dex, but am not 100% sure. What about when i learn DE, dex or agi? Thanks!

[Callisto]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

At that level it'll be DEX for SA, as if I'm not mistaken the AGI mod on TA doesn't come into play until you get Assassin, which is what, like 50 or 55?

In terms of Dancing Edge, you're going to want mostly STR and Accuracy with DEX in spots you can't get alot of the first two, as the SA or TA bonus will only apply to the first hit, you still need to land all of the subsequent hits for good damage, and for those hits the benefits of higher STR will typically outweigh the 30% DEX mod.

Otherwise if you're doing TA > DE without SA(which is perfectly viable w/ Assassin), then the same idea but AGI instead of DEX, as the higher base damage from the AGI mob will likely go further than the 30% DEX mod on the WS.

I'm pretty sure there's a STR vs. DEX vs. AGI thread somewhere in these THF forums from last year, you may need to dig for it but iirc people laid some actual math to it.

[Armando]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

At that level it'll be DEX for SA, as if I'm not mistaken the AGI mod on TA doesn't come into play until you get Assassin, which is what, like 50 or 55?

If the AGI mod weren't in play, SATA wouldn't be stronger than SA alone. The AGI modifier is always present (assuming you're a THF main of course); Assassin just makes it a 100% hit rate guaranteed crit, making it equivalent to Sneak Attack damage-wise.

Anyways, DEX and AGI do the exact same thing for SATA. Doesn't matter which you boost so just try to get the biggest number. For Dancing Edge, you'll want to focus on Accuracy more than anything else, though (yes, even more than DEX and AGI.)

[rshermaniv]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

Thanks guys.

[Kittyneko]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

Some more info:
Dex rises Accuracy as well.
Dancing Edge has dex30% chr40% modifiers, making Dex rise your dmg much further than Agi does.
Dex adds a tiny bit more dmg to Sneak Attack than Agi does to Trick Attack.

And don't forget when using "SaTa" or just "Ta" it's about highest damage or enmity, not highest Agi.

[Malacite]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

Equip DEX where you can, and then AGI afterwards (e.g. DEX rings and a pair of Drone Earrings)

Accuracy should take priority when using DE as said by above posters since it's a multi-hit WS and the SATA multipliers will only apply to the 1st hit.

[Callisto]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

If the AGI mod weren't in play, SATA wouldn't be stronger than SA alone. The AGI modifier is always present (assuming you're a THF main of course); Assassin just makes it a 100% hit rate guaranteed crit, making it equivalent to Sneak Attack damage-wise.

Ah thanks, had that backwards, thought it was always a crit if the standing behind someone condition was met w/ Assassin giving the AGI mod.

Couldn't tell if SATA was actually stronger than just SA, mostly b/c I can't remember the last time I've seen SATA come from an actual THF.

[Ziero]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

I thought Assasin increased the Agi mod on TA, because there's a big difference in TA dmg before and after Assassin. And I don't think anything makes TA a 100% hit outside of stacking it with SA.

But anyway, to the OP, at your lvl it's all about the Dex. VB as a WS on it's own pretty much sucks and TA does add damage based on Agi, but even with similar Agi numbers the Dmg isn't the same. At 60 you get DE and Assassin, two great things for thf. Now you can split up Sa and Ta and even solo a WS for decent dmg. Though I personally prefered to solo SA and throw out TA+DE on the tank.

Anyway, when using SA, you load Dex, when using TA you load Agi and when using DE you load up on ACC.

[Armando]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

Dex adds a tiny bit more dmg to Sneak Attack than Agi does to Trick Attack.

Nah, they pretty much boost their respective abilities equally. The increase in damage may appear by be greater in Sneak Attack pre-Assasin but that's just because Sneak Attack will do more damage than Trick Attack in general. The %/proportion by which your damage will increase is the same, though.

EDIT:

I thought Assasin increased the Agi mod on TA, because there's a big difference in TA dmg before and after Assassin. And I don't think anything makes TA a 100% hit outside of stacking it with SA.

It does what I said. Trust me. It's the entire reason it's better to separate SA and TA after Assasin (two separate crits, one with DEX mod, one with AGI mod > 1 crit with DEX and AGI mods.)

[Malacite]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

because there's a big difference in TA dmg before and after Assassin

Yeah because Assassin makes TA a 100% critical the same as Sneak Attack, hence why you split them (also because it makes the whole hate locking process much faster and less dangerous)

Trick Attack actually will out damage Sneak Attack if you have the Rogue's Armlets +1 (15% more AGI used) but apart from that their damage and multipliers are the same. SA tends to do more primarily because of the DEX mods on dagger weapon skills (you're already stacking DEX for Sneak Attack so it just all gets piled together)

[Lmnop]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

This many years later, we still have to go through this... k, here's my breakdown from February.

Break-down of THF "attacks":

Sneak attack
Works by being directly behind the monster.

on THF main:
adds your DEX to DMG and makes the hit an automatic critical and makes the attack 100% accurate.

on THF sub:
Makes the hit auto-crit and 100% accurate. No extra damage from DEX.

Trick Attack
Works by having any other PC between you and the mob in question so a normal TA will look like:
Monster > <Tank <You Or even something like <Monster < Unlucky Dark Knight < You

on THF main:
Adds AGI to DMG rating, transfers all hate from the attack to person in front of you.

on THF sub:
Transfers all hate from attack to person in front of you. Absolutely no bonus damage.

Assassin trait
When Trick Attack conditions are met (see above), The attack becomes automatic critical, and 100% accurate (just like Sneak Attack).

Since this is level 60, obviously it'll be THF main only.

Because Assassin makes TA so potent, it's my belief that stacking them at this point is a bad idea.

You lose a large amount of damage potential to give the tank a moderate boost to enmity. Most people tend to solo Sneak Attack and then use TA + WS on the tank.

Pre-Assassin, if you have no trick buddy... you're probably not in the best party layout. I would say feel free to trick onto SAMs and DRGs... but those are the 2 that should be voking anyway. If they're subbing THF like chodes, you can often stand behind the tank and wait for SA WS to turn mob, then you do SATA WS to bring it back. These parties seldom work good, however.

[Kittyneko]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

On a side-note, I seem to have noticed that a Thief is able to Trick Attack alliance members, while any other job with sub thief isn't. Anyone have more experience with this?

[Lmnop]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

While there may be an enmity reduction (though I doubt it), I plant hate on tanks when fighting gods as war/thf. And I'm in the 'disposable dd' party, not the DD party.

[Callisto]

Re: SATA agi or dex?

On a side-note, I seem to have noticed that a Thief is able to Trick Attack alliance members, while any other job with sub thief isn't. Anyone have more experience with this?

Definitely not the case, every event we do has the DDs in a separate party from the tanks and they can TA those in the tank party juse fine. If /THF DDs couldn't TA alliance members that'd probably destroy HNM strategy as we know it, lol.