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What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

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  • The Mauva Syndicate
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Not just birds, pretty much anything that has an elemental weakness can benefit from it.

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  • Malacite
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
    Leader of my last endgame shell took SCH to 75 and not only used /NIN with it for Uggy Pendant fight (still died a lot, lol), but when we went to merit with him, he not once used Accession Stoneskin or Phalanx. Seriously, you have a bunch /NIN users here, how can you not at least be using Accession Stoneskin? You'd save a ton of MP.
    Personally I love it when SCH do Accession + Enblizzard for bird parties. That extra ice damage can really add up if you have a lot of fast hitters.

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  • Omgwtfbbqkitten
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Aksannyi View Post
    Of course, most of the SCH I've encountered on Hades are complete crap, but the good ones make me feel really inadequate at times.
    Bad SCHs play it like a WHM and nothing else, really. Of course, all bad healers think healing is just about tapping a cure macro.

    I was in Mount Z last night and a BLM PT was using a 52 SCH as a weather spell whore. Way to show people what we can do, guy, don't take a real PT or nothing.

    They were also stealing my puddings at times, which I did not appreciate. I shouldn't have R2ed one of them after that, but I took the high ground >.>

    Leader of my last endgame shell took SCH to 75 and not only used /NIN with it for Uggy Pendant fight (still died a lot, lol), but when we went to merit with him, he not once used Accession Stoneskin or Phalanx. Seriously, you have a bunch /NIN users here, how can you not at least be using Accession Stoneskin? You'd save a ton of MP.

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  • Yellow Mage
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Nataka View Post
    It's not quiet as easy for a summoner to cast Hastega since pets dont really position themselves perfectly all the time.
    "{Gather together.} -> {Garuda} or no {Haste}."

    That should bring any melee faithfully drooling to Garuda's side (possibly for more reasons than Pavlov thought of . . . ). That stuff's like crack, I have heard.

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  • Aksannyi
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Callisto View Post
    I'd love for SCH to get Haste and Refresh, so that they can be backline support bitches while I can finally break out the Sword and slap some things around with minor support responsibilities.
    Bite your tongue!

    And personally, I just want SCH to stop stepping on my toes as a WHM, not so much as a RDM, which will always have a place in endgame. WHM does seem to be getting phased out, if you want to admit it or not, there are people on BG and on Hades (and probably elsewhere, but where's my experience?) who say that WHMs are useless.

    Noooooooooo!

    Of course, most of the SCH I've encountered on Hades are complete crap, but the good ones make me feel really inadequate at times.

    I would really appreciate if SE would separate DV and let us use it more often. I'm not putting merits into DS recast because there are much better places to put my merits, but I do wish I could use my DV capabilities more often.

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  • Callisto
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    I'd love for SCH to get Haste and Refresh, so that they can be backline support bitches while I can finally break out the Sword and slap some things around with minor support responsibilities. That said, not going to happen. I personally think they'll come up with something relatively unique, hopefully not as bad as NIN's.

    I'd expect something along the lines of a boost to Storm spells or maybe Helix duration. If they were going to lower recast timers for JAs that's something they would have done in Group 1.
    ______________________________
    Also I just wanted to point out in the SCH vs. RDM department, SCH is rather dependant on RDM as the generally accepted optimal subjob, whereas /SCH is handy for some situations as RDM but easily done without.
    Last edited by Callisto; 11-03-2008, 01:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  • Omgwtfbbqkitten
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Ziero View Post
    Wait, you honestly think SE will give Sch pre-existing spells for their group 2 merits?

    Spells that other jobs get at full potency from just leveling up?

    Group 2s are spells, abilities and traits that are completely unique and customized to each job.

    Me, I'd expect a trait that allows use of strategms with a chance to not use up a charge, a trait that somehow enhances the weather buffs, and either a new JA per grimoire or two new, unique, job specific spells.
    Last I checked, Addendums were unique to SCH. Happen to know any other jobs that can get full access to the -na Spell. Sleep, Sleep II, Erase and Dispel purely through the main job?

    Also, SCH's Accession is pretty much ninjaed from BLU's Group 2 category at birth. Not to mention BLU gets Jettatura as a spell while BST gets Terroize as a Group 2 merit. COR was raising tiers on Dia and Bio before RDM even got Tier II enfeebling merits and also had Rolls that PLD and DRG eventually got of the spell Reprisal and the merit ability Strafe respectively. Only difference between Reprisal and Gallant's is that Reprisal encourages sheild block and isn't blaze spikes, but at its core, it was inspired by Gallant's Roll. And that was juse a spell added to the main job, not merit.

    All COR's Group 2s exist to enhance existing Job abilities. Hell, it has more JAs than any other in the game, technically. SCH is a JA Mage, moreso than any other mage in the game, why wouldn't the Group 2s focus on improving thier job abilities.

    ---------------------------------

    Teir II Helix spells would be incredibly broken, SCHs can already pull UFOs out of the sky on thier own with the Helix spells they do have. I played with Hpemdes last night and fed them 330 Helix spells, then boosted it with MV for 660 per tick. SCH Helix spells practically are thier AM spell line. SCH can already boost the potency and halve the casting time, so I don't see a benefit to getting another tier.

    For weather spells, I don't think a second tier is right there either. First, we have the sea obis that can already be exploited. I think instead that enhancing the duration of Storm spells would be much better because they really don't last long enough as they currently stand and they're annoying to recast.

    ----------------------------

    Aksannyi: I don't really see a problem with the Accession-na ability. Its true that SE should lower the recast time on Divine Viel, but also remember that Accession is one of many JAs a SCH can use and in a healer position, I find that I'd still rather just tend to -na spells manually and use Accession to buff rather than status cure.

    Side note: Caedarva Mire Level Sync PTs can burn in hell. I've stopped taking invites there for merits because people think I'm some kinda status cure babysitter that gets them out of bringing Echo Drops. Buy em, I got better things to be doing.

    Also, as a SCH, I don't want Haste anyway. As I said, I'd rather put it to things like Stoneskin, Regen or Phalanx. Having to dole out Haste would mean I'd probably have to drop Phalanx half the time. Not to mention it would rape my MP a lot more. No thanks.

    And SE hardly has shown this job any favortism, in my opinion. At least, not since March.

    We have no access to Salvage gear (nor does DNC for that matter, what the hell?), practically no ZNM armor, Yigit Body is no good to us for nukes, I don't know why we get Genbu's Shield, no abjurations yet, either.

    So Ixion's Cloak, Vicious mufflers, Kirin's Pole/Alkalurops and a handful of Assault and Nyzul gear are all we really have to aspire to.

    ---------------------------------

    Originally posted by Yellow Mage
    Also, I'll cry myself if Scholar gets any pre-existing spells for their Merits (for all parties involved, in fact), or a tailor-built sidegrade of one, for that matter (BBQ's "Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes" . . . no, just, no).
    I think tanks would disagree.

    Final Side note: I like that RDMs are more scared of SCHs than everyone else.

    ----------------------------------

    If there was another kind of magic to have, I would think Daytime/Nighttime magic would be rather appropriate. There's quite a bit of gear that has Nighttime latents on them. Weather/Time effect gear still needs to be more plentiful. though.
    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 11-03-2008, 01:26 PM.

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  • Nataka
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
    Somewhere a Summoner with their Evoker's Ring is crying.

    Also, I'll cry myself if Scholar gets any pre-existing spells for their Merits (for all parties involved, in fact), or a tailor-built sidegrade of one, for that matter (BBQ's "Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes" . . . no, just, no).
    I meant only for scholars. It's not quiet as easy for a summoner to cast Hastega since pets dont really position themselves perfectly all the time. They also cant match the healing potentiial of a red mage and certainly not a white mage.

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  • Yellow Mage
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Nataka View Post
    Hastega is just out of the question,
    Somewhere a Summoner with their Evoker's Ring is crying.

    Also, I'll cry myself if Scholar gets any pre-existing spells for their Merits (for all parties involved, in fact), or a tailor-built sidegrade of one, for that matter (BBQ's "Manifestation-compatible Ice Spikes" . . . no, just, no).

    Leave a comment:


  • Nataka
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Aksannyi View Post
    I think I'd be safe in saying that a lot of WHM and RDM would throw a fit if SCH got Haste. They do SO MUCH already, it's like SE sucks SCH's dick, they were kinda "lol" at first and now they're brilliant, almost too brilliant. I'm not lying when I say that SCH is borderline broken. If SE doesn't tread carefully they could put a lot of mages out of a job.
    Yeah I mean Hastega is just out of the question, as is Refreshga. Stoneskinga was okay because, let's face it, that isnt going to make or break an encounter. But Hastega and Refreshga just makes things a little too simple for a party, and like you said puts RDM and WHM out of a job. It'd be hard to argue that normal Refresh and Haste would still be better than the -ga versions, since scholar's AOE Strat does not lower the power of the spell at all.

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  • Aksannyi
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    I think I'd be safe in saying that a lot of WHM and RDM would throw a fit if SCH got Haste. They do SO MUCH already, it's like SE sucks SCH's dick, they were kinda "lol" at first and now they're brilliant, almost too brilliant. I'm not lying when I say that SCH is borderline broken. If SE doesn't tread carefully they could put a lot of mages out of a job.

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  • Ziero
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Even if SE did up the base exp gained from IT mobs and gave bonuses to SC+MB, it would have to be a fairly massive amount to compete with TP burns. Due to their sheer accessibility and simplicity, combined with low risk/high rewards, ToAU burns are hard to compete against.

    And again, I doubt SE will be adding old spells for Schs group 2 merits. As Aksannyi said, group 2s are for giving jobs new, and unique, things to play with. Just giving a class older spells, especially things that they can already get from subs, is rather useless and a borderline ridiculous notion.

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  • Aksannyi
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Nataka View Post
    I dunno why people feel like we have to have Super-Mages that can do everything..
    Because there's only room for one mage in TP burn parties in order to get chain 6253. Not saying it's good, but that's how it is. I've come to embrace it, myself, as quick merits > insanely slow merits.

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  • Nataka
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Please no haste! I get so frakin' scared of haste with melees, it's why I cant play red mage and keep quitting WHM: Haste really seems to bring out the worst in people, as evne if it's only been gone for a second people are like "OMG WHY DONT I HAVE HASTE GIVE IT TO ME NO ID ONT CARE THAT YOU'RE HEALING THAT OTHER GUY." Same goes for Refreesh too, really, but for some reason Haste seems to be worse.

    :/

    I do have to agree though, that no matter what direction they go with merit group 2, I think scholars and red mages complement each other rather well. With a Scholar, Red Mages are able to focus on enhancing and debuffing, and Scholars are able to focus on Healing and occasionally nuking too for extra damage. Same goes for WHM really, I dunno why people feel like we have to have Super-Mages that can do everything..

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  • Malacite
    replied
    Re: What they'll probably do with SCH Group 2

    Originally posted by Aksannyi View Post
    All three of my jobs are replaceable by SCH these days (yes, even my RDM, in things like meripo, it still counts), especially my gimpy unmerited BLM. XD
    I actually see this as a good thing in some respects, as it frees up RDM to do other things, like oh say enfeeble. SE needs to step up to the plate and fix EXP for "classic" parties. I'm thinking 400-500 base EXP for high IT mobs that require SC + MB to kill like we used to do would make it fairly comparable to TP burns.

    One style of EXP shouldn't be strictly better than other. The more ways we have to EXP the less crowding there is and people sitting on their asses bored for hours.


    Sorry for the derail. I agree BBQ that Flash and Stun would be really nice and are quite likely, but more than anything I'd like to see SCH get Haste.

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