Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

rdm as DD?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Akashimo
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    You know, >_> Only reason why I would DD as rdm is because I hate getting parties that wants to chain that high. Its boring, and not worth all that exp/merits >_>;

    Leave a comment:


  • Icemage
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by Callisto View Post
    Pffft I parse 112% effort in meripo easily, 123% on a good day.
    Let's see the screenshot of your 200+ limit chain in meripo, then. If melee works as well as you say, and you're putting out more than my 100% effort, you should be able to do better than I did above, right?


    Icemage

    Leave a comment:


  • Callisto
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by Mhurron View Post
    If it can be done it is a 105% effort. 105% effort is not possible therefore ...
    Pffft I parse 112% effort in meripo easily, 123% on a good day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mhurron
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
    If a RDM is covering all his duty in party, and melee, the extra damage is a bonus--call it a 105% effort?

    Calling a 105% effort a failure is rather harsh.
    If it can be done it is a 105% effort. 105% effort is not possible therefore ...

    Leave a comment:


  • ItazuraNhomango
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
    Ultimately, I know the intention beind this DW combo is to build for Eviceration, but you're only gonna do it half the fights and living in a community where anything less than 95% fails.
    If a RDM is covering all his duty in party, and melee, the extra damage is a bonus--call it a 105% effort?

    Calling a 105% effort a failure is rather harsh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omgwtfbbqkitten
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by arkaine23 View Post
    The speed difference is right about 14%. The TP/hit difference is about 20%. That's so narrow a difference that a lot of the time it won't matter.
    Considering all the things you have to manange on top of melee, I think its a rather large gap. I know how gummed up RDM melee can be thanks to its responsibilities by firsthand experience, but also as COR I have to stop once a minute to buff someone and the amount of time that takes is variable. If I want to crank out a Slugshot or Detonator each fight, I need the 100% TP the quickest way I can. I usually am completely left out of the Haste cycle, too, few RDMs and WHMs spare me a haste, so single-wield Joyuse has proven to often be the way to go.

    RDM can't really put itself at the top of the Haste Cycle, even when they do melee, unless they don't want to keep thier slot in PT.

    I think the question in a lot of people's minds is this: Can RDM do all its invited for and melee for 100% TP and WS each fight?

    Ultimately, I know the intention beind this DW combo is to build for Eviceration, but you're only gonna do it half the fights and living in a community where anything less than 95% fails.

    Leave a comment:


  • arkaine23
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by Icemage View Post
    True, though you'll gain TP faster with a single-wielded Joyeuse than Blau Dolch/Joyeuse, due to Dual Wield's effect on TP gain.

    Dual Wielded Blau/Joy has a base TP gain of 4.8 TP per hit with Suppanomimi.

    Single wielded Joyeuse has a base TP gain of 6.0 TP per hit.


    The speed difference is right about 14%. The TP/hit difference is about 20%. That's so narrow a difference that a lot of the time it won't matter.
    Last edited by arkaine23; 02-04-2008, 04:00 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Icemage
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    ^ the above party, I accumulated a little over 41K limit points in ~1.75 hours. 22.8K per hour, no XP rings used, with no Corsair, and a weak Candescence in effect. BRD BRD RDM WAR MNK WAR setup, camped in the middle of the Skoffins near the Mamool Ja Staging point.

    At one point, we got wind weather and were chaining the Air Elementals, which was a good laugh.


    Icemage

    Leave a comment:


  • ItazuraNhomango
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    >_>;

    I'd like the experience that... The best party I've ever had was only chain#110 on Greater Colibri.

    Would be nice to take care of all my remaining Red Mage specific merits in day or two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Icemage
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    OK, then. I made some statements earlier that I'd like to show some proof of.



    When you can show me a melee RDM who can pull this off, perhaps we can talk about how "good" melee RDM is in XP parties compared to backlining.


    Icemage

    Leave a comment:


  • Icemage
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by arkaine23 View Post
    Actually Blau/Joy is faster than a single-wielded Joyeuse.

    Blau/Joy w/ Suppa has a delay of ~322 before any haste considerations. Average of 2.5 attacks, or ~129 delay per attack. A non-multi-attack main weapon also confers more advantage from Brutal Earring than single wielding or dual-wielding multi-attack weapons with Brutal, but I'll leave that out of these calculations.

    Joy by itself before haste considerations attacks 1.5 times at delay 224, or ~150 delay per attack average.

    Justice/Joy is the fastest... 368 combined delay after DW and Suppa, average of 3 attacks/round, for ~123 delay per attack average.
    True, though you'll gain TP faster with a single-wielded Joyeuse than Blau Dolch/Joyeuse, due to Dual Wield's effect on TP gain.

    Dual Wielded Blau/Joy has a base TP gain of 4.8 TP per hit with Suppanomimi.

    Single wielded Joyeuse has a base TP gain of 6.0 TP per hit.


    Icemage

    Leave a comment:


  • arkaine23
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Actually Blau/Joy is faster than a single-wielded Joyeuse.

    Blau/Joy w/ Suppa has a delay of ~322 before any haste considerations. Average of 2.5 attacks, or ~129 delay per attack. A non-multi-attack main weapon also confers more advantage from Brutal Earring than single wielding or dual-wielding multi-attack weapons with Brutal, but I'll leave that out of these calculations.

    Joy by itself before haste considerations attacks 1.5 times at delay 224, or ~150 delay per attack average.

    Justice/Joy is the fastest... 368 combined delay after DW and Suppa, average of 3 attacks/round, for ~123 delay per attack average.
    Last edited by arkaine23; 02-02-2008, 05:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lmnop
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by arkaine23 View Post
    Still giving up /NIN DW delay reduction, suppanomimi DW delay reduction, 5 acc and 16 attack from Blau Dolch, and Evisceration.
    DPS-wise, it may come out on top. But tp-wise, Joyeuse single-wield will always always always get you more tp than dual wielding it with anything short of Justice Sword or Kraken Club (in the Justice Sword example, it'd be the same tp gain). So Dagger mainhanded would get you more potent WS, and arguably better DPS.... but now your 50% extra tp gain from Joyeuse is more like ~30% extra tp (remembering that it takes very low delay weapons like dagger/dagger to garner a tp advantage out of dual wield [see wiki for details]).

    But really, that's neither here nor there. My main point was that /nin means you're giving up a sub that may be more viable to a party. DRK is a nice sub as it at least gives Aspir and Stun. BLM still isn't a horrendous sub for a party where you're doing all your mage work with a sword out (not that it sits well with me). /nin, however, is great if you're already pulling. But if that's the case, you've cost yourself a lot of melee time. You'll be hard-pressed just to do your RDM duties.

    Leave a comment:


  • ItazuraNhomango
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Hmm. One Joyeuse each: RDM/BLU Bludgeon spamming vs. RDM/NIN Evisceration spamming with Blau Dolch.

    Not in a real merit party, of course, but perhaps in a friendly contest on Greater Colibris with friends providing tanking and healing support. Could be fun. ^_^

    Leave a comment:


  • arkaine23
    replied
    Re: rdm as DD?

    Originally posted by Lmnop View Post
    Actually, .5 second casting times (despite long animations) means BLU spam barely cuts into your DPS. For all practical DD RDM application, it will always out-DD just sword alone.

    However, I agree with Itaz. Rdm melee is built around "something else to contribute between performing my main tasks" and spending more MP on Bludgeon-Butt doesn't really fit the bill.

    Also, of note: Joyeuse is piercing damage, so no need to /nin and do Dagger/Joy. Joy mainhand, you'll give the Colibri hell. Note, though, that your WSs will still be slashing damage, so they won't be as big of numbers as Dagger Eviscerate. But +50% tp will always win. It's especially nice for RDM who may have to equip swap a staff when things start to go wrong.
    Still giving up /NIN DW delay reduction, suppanomimi DW delay reduction, 5 acc and 16 attack from Blau Dolch, and Evisceration.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X