Is muskatre gun used until hellfire?

[Spider-Dan]

That's not a particular reason for a Tarutaru to use a gun over a bow, though. Most of archery's damage comes from the bow; most of marksmanship's damage comes from the ammo. Either way, it's still affected by STR.

[greysenn]

Yeah. Didn't read that far up on the post, just referring to your quoted bit from him

[LordBiGGs]

well...about money, it seems to me an rng using a gun would probably fire less than one using a bow in order to keep agro on the tank. i'm not really sure, never played with an rng that used a gun. i have however tanked with bow using rng's and it was pretty difficult to keep hate off them at times.

now that i'm taking a break from tanking and playing rng i'm wondering if i should really use a gun. like is it worth it and if i do is the tank going to be able to hold hate?

almost forgot, if using a gun saves you from having to buy an E bow, isn't using a gun cheaper in the end?

[poweryoga]

using a gun is unlimited expense. Unlimited need for bullets, which will in the end cost more than an e-bow which is an investment of sorts. However, i'd never plop down 4 mil for an e-bow, its not THAT good.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by poweryoga
using a gun is unlimited expense. Unlimited need for bullets, which will in the end cost more than an e-bow which is an investment of sorts.

4,500,000g / 9000g per stack of silver bullets = 500 stacks of silver bullets

500 stacks of silver bullets will last well past LV75, at which point Eurytos' is reportedly obsolete anyway (Othinus' / Hellfire are far superior for HNM, as I hear it). This is without even taking into account that Eurytos' needs ammo, too.

Simply put, if you want max damage, Musketeer +2 & Silvers until Othinus'. If you want max prestige, Eurytos'. This is exemplified in that most players will be more awed by Eurytos' than Othinus' (even though Othinus' is better), simply because Eurytos' is outrageously overpriced and Othinus' is free.

[Ru-Kenshin]

"Unless you are fighting Flies and doing 150~ DMG per bullet, you were either A) shooting VT mobs that are debuffed or B) exaggerating.


With RNG/WAR I could MAYBE consistantly hit 150DMG per bullet with zerk and atk+ trait. As a RNG/NIN you'd probably need pretty special conditions to do so."

I didn't read through all the posts in the thread, but I did catch this part. And I can verify, that with a Gun the damage is if not this high then even higher.

With a Gun leveling currently off of Crawlers, Flies, and Crabs, I do 140 Damage on Crawlers, 160 on Flies, and 110 on Crabs. With a BRD I do 170 on Crawlers, 200+ on Flies, and 140 on Crabs. If I happen to sub WAR, I'll bump it up to up to almost 200 on Crawlers, 240 on Flies, and 160 on Crabs.

My Slug Shot will hit for a max of 1200 on Crabs, 1400 on Crawlers, and 1600 on flies. Using Guns does make a VERY noticeable difference in damage. If you'd like I could also post the Parser Results from the fights I've used with Guns.

[TaruSGonEWilD]

Guns are great but I think a warning should be issued to every ranger out there to NOT use guns until lvl 22. Bullets are great, they really up the dmg of whatever gun you are using, bronze bullets however.... are CRAP. They are the worst things you will EVER buy. they definitely aren't worth the money. But when you get 34 and use some bullets with a serpentine, its sweet, they do crazy dmg. :-D

[poweryoga]

I doubt onthius is better as there's little chance of an acid bolt landing on whatever HNM you're fighting if they're well above your level... hell they sometimes take forever to land on stupid Ovilinks.

not to mentino the whole accuracy issue since not everybody can get together a pt for optical hats.

[Macht]

Yeah, I had tried guns a little more now and I was kind of surprised to see a Pirates Gun and Bullets which if I had equipped around lv. 25 I would of been doing similar damage that my Great Bow +1 and Silver Arrows did at lv. 30.

As far as I can see they are quite strong, still though since the types of bullets available seem sparse it still makes it were which one has the superior damage each level seems to trade of between the Bow, Crossbolt, and Gun.

Near the End though all three seem fairly equal in damage.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by poweryoga
I doubt onthius is better as there's little chance of an acid bolt landing on whatever HNM you're fighting if they're well above your level... hell they sometimes take forever to land on stupid Ovilinks.

As far as I can tell, there is very little debate among 70+ RNGs... Othinus' is simply better than Eurytos', period.

As far as vs. HNM, as I understand it, against the old HNMs (Roc, Serket, King Arthro, etc.), @LV75 Othinus' can stick them with bolt effect just like a normal mob. Bolt effects won't work against Sky HNM, so they use Hellfire.

[poweryoga]

I'm not sure about how much damage E-bow deals, but from personal experience I look at my holy bolt damage and get dissapointed JUST because they don't do enough damage, and I'm subbing warrior for most of the time.

Takes on average 2 acid bolts for status to land.
After that, holy bolts do about 120-140 to tigers + 10 damage average.
Refresh def.down after about 5-6 shots.

acids do pitiful damage.

Just the down time from acid bolts each battle makes it not do as much damage as I would like it to. I never had an e-bow so i can't test it, but My friend was partying with one and he said the rng was doing approximately 150 damage a shot, with about 1300 damage on sidewinders with an E-bow. he was a taru too. (assuming pat.prot.arrow)

Just from the sound of that I'd think e-bow does more damage overall, except for the occasional mob where I get lucky and acids stick the first hit, and I do 160 damage + 50 holy damage per bolt.

Also, most lvl 70+ rangers don't have an E-bow, so they can't tell you that "O-bow is better" simply because they haven't tried it.

People with O-bow and switch to E-bow think E-bow is better.

People with E-bow and get O-bow think O-bow is better.

I don't know about guns on HNMs, never used it on them.

Think its more of a case of "I never used it so it sucks" or "I've been using this too long so it sucks" kind of mindset. Hard to not be biased on that i suppose.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by poweryoga
Also, most lvl 70+ rangers don't have an E-bow, so they can't tell you that "O-bow is better" simply because they haven't tried it.

People with O-bow and switch to E-bow think E-bow is better.

People with E-bow and get O-bow think O-bow is better.

My observations are based solely upon the statements of RNGs who have (or had) both.

I cannot recall any RNG that has both stating that E is better. In fact, the reports I have heard are that several 75RNGs are selling their E-bows, because there is just no use for them (the price is certainly an incentive).

There is a current thread on another forum here that addresses some of the same things we are talking about, in which some LV75s explain their opinion on E vs. O.

[poweryoga]

Spider-Dan, you're on the same server as I am, so may I ask which rangers you asked?

I'm currently able to get an e-bow for an exp party for testing purposes, I'll let you know how it fares relative to the O-bow, but judging from the bow's owner (who has both O-bow and e-bow) it seems the E-bow is superior solely for skillchain damage.

Also, regarding that thread, I've read it long ago but it didn't give me what I was looking for.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by poweryoga
Spider-Dan, you're on the same server as I am, so may I ask which rangers you asked?

Mostly rangers on other servers.

I'm currently able to get an e-bow for an exp party for testing purposes, I'll let you know how it fares relative to the O-bow, but judging from the bow's owner (who has both O-bow and e-bow) it seems the E-bow is superior solely for skillchain damage.

That doesn't sound right.

E-bow + Demon- D105, RATK+23
O-bow + Darksteel- D104, RATK+18 (but Acid Bolts will debuff to -25% DEF)

[poweryoga]

tested it over the past couple of days...

E-bow is indeed stronger.... on some enemies.

With scorpion arrows, the damage is marginal at best, maybe an extra 5-7 damage, not noticable really.

Weapon skills do a shit load more damage. at least 100-150 more damage consistantly.

Ignoring skeletons.... nothing, not even bullets, do good enough damage on those.

After using E-bow, i whiped out O-bow for some acid/holy/drksteel bolts. Taking away from the time for acids to land (usually 2-4 bolts) and the somewhat randomness of the holy bolts side effect.... E-bow does more damage more steadily, more accurate, though o-bow has less delay... E-bow returns much more TP per barrage as well.

E-bow + Demon- D105, RATK+23
O-bow + Darksteel- D104, RATK+18 (but Acid Bolts will debuff to -25% DEF)

Regarding this, a lot of things....

1) You don't exp with demons as primary ammo.
2) You don't exp with darksteel as primary ammo.
3) Acids take time to land, taking away from DOT, and they usually last around 5-6 holy bolts, meaning you need to reapply.
4) Holy bolts are unpredictable. added effect can be anywhere from 2- 40, with most damage being in the 2-10 range.

I realize acids lower defense so everyone hits harder, but I didn't notice any significant difference because it wears off way too quickly for my liking, and I get tired trying to debuff the mob after the 3-4 acid bolt fails. Also, a lot of monsters resist acid bolts a lot, mainly the stuff I'm lvling on atm.

On flies, Holy bolt's damages can be sometimes greater. On spiders, e-bow does consistently more damage. On stuff that's not weak to arrow (tiger and cockatrice), E-bow damage is marginally better than holy bolts, though in all cases.... WS damage is much much greater, even without berserk on e-bow's arching arrows were doing a lot of damage compared to a berserked + darksteel one.

So in conclusion... E-bow is a better overall weapon. However, if you're lvling off specific enemies weak to acid bolts or flies.... Onthius bow can sometimes be better.