Fold Vs Winning Streak

[Flanteus]

Hello,

I'm leaning more towards having more points on Winning Streak instead of more points on Fold (unlocking Fold is must), I know the ideal setup for group 2 merits, but still I have doubts ...

Fold is good and all but bust has 2 side effects that I rather avoid busting all together than being aggressive now and then to use fold, also the "7:30 mins CD" fold , imo it seems useless becuz rolls only last 5 mins , meaning you might (if not always..) miss using fold for the 2nd round of your buffs (1 round , Fold is available but the 2nd round it would be on CD , and the 3rd round would be available..etc) , so imo it would be more efficient use of merit points if you only upgrade it 3 times with 10 mins (or 5 mins..) CD which makes it available exactly every 2nd round. I think this way carry for both JA snake eye and fold for these timers (12:30 and 7:30). I know having Fold as early as possible in some situations is ..situational.
in the end I find myself just unlocking Fold is more than enough for my rolls needs.. in a merit party...which leaves me with Winning Streak since I hate missing up my rotations - being lazy or too busy with /dnc - 100% additional time on an awesome roll ..etc

anyway, I'm just voicing my opinion from what I experienced and I want to be convinced why having more point on fold is any better than longer rolls? and why fold with a 7:30 mins ?
btw I already wasted 3 merits points on WS

peace..
(sorry for my bad english , this is the best i could come up to describe my problem )

[Flanteus]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

ok I'm doing this setup
5 snake eye ( i'm waiting Snake Eye II which guarantee rolling "2" ...lol)
1 Fold (either 1 or 3 or 5, else is a waste..imo)
3 WS
1 LD ( even tho i hate the idea about this merit, upgrade to fix the damn skill..)

I was meriting yesterday and tested WS, with 1 WS (20 sec) ,rolls are much easier to maintain! i no longer face the problem where my rolls are down and phantom roll is still on cooldown, since we cant reapply until it wear off , like giving mages evoker which involve running time this is covered with the 20 sec extra on rolls since buffing still done with ~1 mins in between , I still miss 2-4 secs sometime tho another upgrade to Winning Streak and I wouldn't make single party member wait for buff due phantom roll recast! (more laziness coverage!)

Fold in the other-hand, still isn't very helpful, rolling unlucky even after using fold didn't change anything lol, the thing about Snake Eye and Winning Streak that both of them are (in nature) 100% in effect (extra time + 1 roll) so the benefit of them aren't affected by luck (directly.. I know the entire buffing system is luck based ) .. whereas Fold and LD are luck based ability and when your luck sux in that time no amount of fold or LD gonna save you lol. my luck actually is quite good , but i still hate luck based mechanic bullshit.....

now the question is 1 LD worth it?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

What you're going with is what a lot of people have as their setup as well. Its proven to work well for many CORs. Feel free to go with what you've chosen.

Having more Snake Eyes opportunities is going to drive down your chances of busting on things just beause it allows you to manipulate rolls.

Three minutes in winning streak is going to give you a lot more freedom do DD or utilize your subjob in whichever way suits you. This is nice especially for events where you may be rotated from party to party as it allows you some room to breathe as you're getting thrown around.

At least one merit in Fold is worth having, just to clear the odd mishhap when Snake Eye is down. And you'll feel the one merit in Loaded Deck more often than you think. The trick is you have to have two job abilities on cooldown to see any benefit from it. This would more or less mean you should be mindful to have Phantom Roll and Barrage down at the same time when you use it, for example.

More often than not, you're going to see it favor a COR ability. Most often you'll get Phantom Roll back, but it is very nice to have a shot a getting something like Barrage or Divine Seal back.

[Flanteus]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

nice!, so i'm not alone with this setup , I thought everyone used this setup instead:
5 SE
4 Fold
1 LD
anyway, I wanted to upgrade LD not for me mainly but the other memebrs to make use of it, but still 20 mins recast plus i dont know exactly how Random deal works, and so far I only random deal when the RDM use Convert .

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

Three minutes in winning streak is going to give you a lot more freedom do DD or utilize your subjob in whichever way suits you.

Three minutes would be nice.

I personally have 3 merits in WS even though I believe Fold merits are more productive. The reason why is because I am lazy and I'd prefer not to have to roll as often.

[Karinya]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

But rolling less often *is* productive. You can overwrite mediocre rolls early if you want, but still milk great rolls to the full duration, but even more importantly, you have things to do in between rolling, and you can do more of those things if you're not spending as much time running into position, rolling, and waiting for Double-Up cooldown.

I don't see what's so great about Fold anyway -- they should have made it reset your PR cooldown when used, so you could have an immediate do-over; *that* would have been worth the long recast. As it is, you still have to wait another minute to retry the roll (except in case of successful Random Deal), which is probably going to lead to other rolls wearing off before you can reapply them unless you have lots of Winning Streak. It removes the personal debuff and protects you from double-busting, but that by itself isn't very impressive.

I agree with Flanteus's setup, except that I don't merit often enough to max out Group IIs anyway (and I might drop the Loaded Deck for another Winning Streak, I'm really not at all impressed with Random Deal). I think currently I have 1 Snake Eye, 1 Winning Streak.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

Three minutes would be nice.

I personally have 3 merits in WS even though I believe Fold merits are more productive. The reason why is because I am lazy and I'd prefer not to have to roll as often.

Its one more minute added to Phantom Roll, bringing Phantom Roll duration to six minutes. This was one of the first posts I saw after waking up this morning. My brain hadn't caught up to the good intentions. Nonetheless its good to correct it since I didn't intend to mislead.

Its true that if we're just playing in an ideal situation, such as where you have a BRD pulling in merits and you can DD, then we could justify your approach to Fold

If I'm pulling, getting tossed around in alliance play, doing manaburn or anything else, though, I'm going to get a lot more out of that one minute added to Phantom Roll than am going to be seeing mistakes to correct, tbat's partly because I need to roll less frequently and have boosted my roll effectiveness from 25 to 50 percent given the situation with Snake Eye. 25 percent being a standard party (four buffs), 33 percent in the ideal merit setups (three buffs) and 50 percent being anything solo/duo or any situation I don't have to concern myself with more than two buffs hitting all party members.

While each buff still has its own odds to contend with, each time I need to do one less buff, the more often I can correct a less-than-ideal value, be it with Snake Eyes or Fold.

Meriting Fold for the sake fo the party is a nice thought, but they'll be getting a six minute duration and likely, consistently good buffs from the 5/1/3/1 spread while the COR gets to do more DD or support healing or whatever is they choose to do with the extra time three Winning Streak merits would net them.

Doubling up is always going to run the chance taking away from DoT or support, but Snake Eyes we know what we're doing with, so we won't see much of a drag from that.

[Malacite]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

I'm curious how it would play out for a COR to take the new ASA pants with the -5 recast to Phantom Roll, and then fully merit Winning Streak & Phantom Roll recast effectively giving you 6:40 buffs on a 0:45 timer.


I'm sure it's not worth it, but it might be interesting to see how that would work out, especially at any kind of HNM or other scenario where you're being rotated out of parties.


Just as an example, it would take you 3 minutes to throw up 4 buffs, and the first buff would still have 3:20 left on the duration! Not too shabby.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

I think the Phantom Rolle recasts for ASA on addon gear are outweighed by the MAB, M ACC, Haste, Store TP and Ranged attack/accuracy they could be getting getting from the pants

I do my add-on pieces for both RNG and COR, though, so I tend to focus on benefits for both. In this case, I'd do Store TP and Haste, though. Store TP will benefit both jobs, Haste for my COR in slot I don't presently have any melee benefits for besides accuacy. Also keeps me from having to worry about salvage (not that I had any intention of going back to it). Haste would do nothing for RNG, but even so, all my other addon rewards benefit it directly.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

I do my add-on pieces for both RNG and COR, though, so I tend to focus on benefits for both. In this case, I'd do Store TP and Haste, though.

You're going to have a problem here.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

You're going to have a problem here.

Yes, yes. Its Conserve TP, not Store TP.

Are you like this at parties? Vague corrections and all that?

[Mezlo]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

lol

I don't think I've seen BBQ corrected this much...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak



I think its fatigue, I really don't know what set me on to thinking It was Store TP. Because I do know I read Conserve TP before.

[Flanteus]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

thank you guys for your input .

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Fold Vs Winning Streak

Yes, yes. Its Conserve TP, not Store TP.

Are you like this at parties? Vague corrections and all that?

The first one was just "having a good time." The second one is actually relevant, since Store TP would actually be useful for both jobs but Conserve TP will (likely) not be useful for either.