Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

There's a nasty little trend starting within the COR community. Seems CORs are trying to push the improved Hunter's Roll onto PTs that may not actually need it, all for the sake of going /WAR in PTs for bigger numbers.

Its true Hunter's is pretty strong now, surpassing Madrigals in the lower levels, but speaking as a BRD and a COR, I can't say I had seen a need for either in most merit situations save for maybe Mamool Ja Lurkers.

Basically, going /WAR forgoes the most obvious benefit of /RNG: +22 Ranged Accuracy, Sharpshot and about +8 accuracy from beater's earring and gun belt. So +30 lost from /RNG sub alone. And then they roll Hunter's to bridge the deficit. That would be clever if it was actually useful to everyone, but that's clearly not always the case. Most people I've ever played with come pretty well-geared for accuracy.

The good question to ask, however, is if Hunter's Roll is as good for the PT as these COR/WARs claim it is, then nothing should be stopping them from subbing *gasp* /WHM, right? /WAR and /WHM are the exact same loss of accuracy. COR/WHM gives the same buffs and can status cure and heal, pretty good, eh?

They don't have a good answer for that yet.

So if you have a COR/WAR that's not meeting your PTs needs, please do point out/request /WHM or /RNG to them. Or that there may be another BRD or COR seeking and willing to meet the true needs of a PT instead of making up for deficits they've already created. At the end of the day, as nice and fun as it is to DD on COR, we're a support class and our first obligation is to buff based on the PT's needs, not our own.

[Kuro]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Oh god, COR/WAR... no mummy keep them away!

[Malacite]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

I see nothing wrong with COR/WAR in and of itself (you'll need sushi to make up for the accuracy loss but it could be worth it)

Using it as an excuse to force hunter's roll = lame.

[Icemage]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Core War is a pretty good game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_War

COR/WAR is lame though. :p


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Yeah, there's not too much wrong with /WAR if the PT is OK with it and its not at the expense of buffing to the PTs needs. If they need Hunter's, OK, but they do not always need Hunter's and usually don't to keep high chains.

You can't really justify /WAR with just sushi, though, it doesn't recover that much ground, not much more than a COR/RNG eating meat. Both would require Hunter's to make up the loss.

COR/RNG with sushi wouldn't really have any losses in accuracy and wouldn't need Hunter's to make up for them, except for maybe a Lurker in MJSP, but then, THF mobs are a problem for everyone.

More or less, these CORs are looking at RNG and trying to duplicate what RNG does at the expense of what a PT may really need, which isn't a decision RNGs are typically faced with.

RNG can forego sushi and /NIN for meat and /WAR because they already have +48 Ranged accuracy before any gear at 75. COR doesn't have that kind of native accuracy, so to force it on a PT that may not need it for the sake of subbing /WAR is lame.

Hunter's Roll hasn't been fully-updated on the ffxilopedia, but the numbers are pretty close save for bonuses, which haven't been updated. I'm not underrating Hunter's Roll by any means.

Even still, it can end up being a placebo effect, not unlike /NIN can sometimes be. Its like the BRD/NIN who passes off shadows as MP savings for the WHM, yet he's not pulling and not getting hit at all.

In COR/WAR's case, its making up for a need they could have covered on thier own at the expense of a PT which may not gain any signifigant improvement in performance as a result.

I think I have sufficiently overexplained my point

[Callisto]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Ehhh...I don't think I'd like COR/WAR much lol...I only use Hunter's if there isn't another job in the party whose Roll would benefit the party more. I do whiff a few Slugs because of this, but I'm a COR, not a RNG, I'm going to whiff a few Slugs anyways. I'd rather swap in Corsair Bullets(if I can ever get the damn things to drop from Pulling the Strings, 0/3 now ) and give SAM and WAR roll for faster TP gain so I could have another shot to actually hit Slug.

In XP parties, a few missed WS from the COR really isn't a big deal in the long run of the party. In a mission or endgame event, I'd probably stand off of the melee and Hunter's right before I WS to make sure I hit, but I wouldn't bother overwriting their melee rolls just so I could hit my own WS'.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Cor/war? Urgh. And Hunter's roll to make up the difference? God help us all.

Though, I have to say, I was introduced to Hunter's Roll recently in a party in Gustav tunnel on my ranger - and I loved it. For a wierdish set up (nin nin rdm blu rng cor), rocking nearly 8k an hour with another party there was awesome.

Maybe I'm levelling cor after sam - but /rng ideally =)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

Few things I noticed about the CORs pushing /WAR:

- They generally haven't levelled BRD or RDM prior to COR.
- They all hail from a lower population servers.
- All were posting concerns about how we'd become a "Bandwagon" job prior to the August update.

Coming from a DD class or even WHM can skew your perspective of what the central role of the job is. I think if you've been a RDM in particular you know that pulling out the sword is a luxury when you're permitted to. CORs main weapon is a gun and its hard to deny the damage potential there, but our accuracy only goes so far and we have an obligation to the PT, so we should cover that base ourselves.

Coming from Titan, which is probably the low end of the highest pop servers. COR/RNG was pretty much THE way to go. Having moved to Odin, probably one of the highest in population, I've noticed the ratio of CORs is the same, but the ones at 75 are a bit more flexible. /RNG is ultimately to make COR self-sufficent on accuracy and help them DD, but /NIN for pulling and /WHM for extra support are not things we should turn away. /WAR is like a distant 7th on the list of subjobs I'd consider, even /BRD, /RDM or /BLU offer more utility and support a PT.

You can probably get away with murder as far as subjobs go on a lower pop server, but just because you got invited /WAR doesn't say much about how good it is when your job has two things every PT wants and needs - a form of dispel and refresh.

And finally, there is no bandwagon. As good as the changes are, they've attracted very few new CORs. Its the same reasons it was low in population before (1) its a support class and (2) its a support class that costs gil to play. I don't think COR will ever get more populatated than BRD, which isn't terribly populated outside of 75.

[DakAttack]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

When you walk in the club, and wanna show some love, do what?

[Galaxia]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

when I lvl cor I only use /WHM I started lvlin rng but ppl asked for WHMs that oftend my RNG got left at 25

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

when I lvl cor I only use /WHM I started lvlin rng but ppl asked for WHMs that oftend my RNG got left at 25

That's poor reasoning to leave RNG at 25. /WHM is nice for COR 1-30 and situationally after, but I've only ever been asked twice to use it. And I've recently moved from a lower population server to a higher one, the higher the population, the more people that conform to a trend within that populations.

In other words, /WHM isn't better just because people on Bahamut want it.

At minimum, a COR should have /RNG, /NIN and /WHM to tap some real versatility in the job, otherwise you just played an NQ BRD to 75 by sticking with /WHM. I've got those bases covered and I do have a full WAR sub, but I wouldn't dream of using it in a PT. Now I'm working off /BLU and /RDM not only because they'll be good for COR, but also because I'm levelling BLU next.

[Jethreal]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

It's not Bahamut BBQ, it's just Galaxia. In 75 levs of Cor on Bahamut I have never been asked to sub Whm. Just remeber Gal. was that guy 2 months ago asking what jobs he could get away with just subbing whm too 'cause he didn't want to level the other subs. :p

[Omni]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

i sub /whm when a pt only has 1 healer. as a taru, i have more mp than some main jobs...*coughgalkaelvaanpldcough* so I can do some helpful spot healing and status ailments.

I do prefer to play with /rng but I'm flexible either way.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Enter the Placebo Roll Corsair.

It's not Bahamut BBQ, it's just Galaxia. In 75 levs of Cor on Bahamut I have never been asked to sub Whm. Just remeber Gal. was that guy 2 months ago asking what jobs he could get away with just subbing whm too 'cause he didn't want to level the other subs. :p

Actually it was back in February, I think.

I don't like the idea of /WHM if all its going to be is a Curebucket. When I was BRD, I used /WHM and limited MP to cover the bases on status cures, Barspells, Curaga bombs and the like - all so the main healer wouldn't have to expend MP to do those spells. It allowed the main healer to focus purely on curing. I see COR/WHM's function in that light

Except today the bulk of yesteryear's crab mobs have been replaced by Colibri and Puks. Unless someone screws up, these things won't be doing any kind of magic or status ailments, so /WHM is curebucket on those. Mamool don't exactly spam status ailments either.

I go /WHM for experimental PTs, duo/trio, sky farming and known status-spamming mobs. I know if my LS is doing Byakko that Erase and Paralyna are going to be more useful to a group than Slug Shot or Spirits Within, so I go /WHM. WHM's are only going to Divine Veil once every fight there, so I need to help out the rest of the time on status cures and backup heals.