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Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

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  • Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

    Everyone was saying what a godsend Light Shot and Dark Shot being converted into a Sleep and Dispel. I thought that, following my experience as a BRD as well as RDM and the AGI modifiers being a new factor in the Quick Draw equation, that if I packed half the AGI relative to me base AGI that I'd have little problem landing these. This following the BRD side logic at least.

    When I tested the changes out in Beseiged on Mamool, it seemed that Dark Shot was fairly consistant. Light Shot... that's not really a good place to test that. Anyway, I didn't have the AGI build at the time that I later used in EXP.

    So I go to Caedarva Mire for EXP at 68.

    So far in about 7k EXP I've had a total of three suceesful Dispels with Dark Shot and two successful Sleeps with Light Shot.

    The rest were all misses and its doesn't make sense. +6 AGI from Jadite Rings, +6 from Drone Earrings, +4 from Wind Staff (/RNG so I didn't suffer much accuracy loss), +4 from AF, +5 from Squid Sushi and I requested AGI Etudes from the BRD in my PT.

    All this resulted in a bunch of wasted cards save for the five successful QDs landing. All the other Elemental QDs functioned normally.

    Now maybe we were just in Mire too early for our level, but that doesn't explain the success rate in Besieged as those mobs would actually be higher level.

    And just as a note, Dark Shot can not only miss, nut sometimes not take effect at all. Light Shot registers as Shadowbind when it does land.
    Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 12-19-2006, 10:16 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

    Does the creatures in Caedarva Mire have certain resistance on Dark element, while Mamool does not have much resistance on Dark element?

    idk, just my random guess~

    Maybe it is broken, who knows~
    Server: Quetzalcoatl
    Race: Hume Rank 7
    75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU

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    • #3
      Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

      Uh... Caedarva Mire has:

      Imps, which resist Dark magic (I got plenty of resists from them levelling RDM there, with maxed Enfeebling merits and gears).

      Jnun, which are undead and also resist Dark Magic like gangbusters.

      Why does Dark Shot failing a lot surprise you in these circumstances?


      Icemage

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      • #4
        Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

        Those little jerks are very resistant to dark element. At that level I had a pretty poor stick rate with rdm dispel, and we know how accurate that spell is. Why they would be so resistant to light shot I don't know, unless the sleep effect on light shot is nonsensically dark based or imps just have natural resistance to sleep in general, which I don't think they do.

        Have you tested light shot on skeletons to see if it really mirrors lullaby?
        lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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        • #5
          Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

          Originally posted by Celeal View Post
          Does the creatures in Caedarva Mire have certain resistance on Dark element, while Mamool does not have much resistance on Dark element?

          idk, just my random guess~

          Maybe it is broken, who knows~
          They are dark resistant, but Dispels by RDMs are dark-based and seldom get resisted and its the same with BRD's Finale - seldom resisted (save for gods, which are light based and so is BRD's Finalie). These were not resisted, the system said it was a "miss."

          Thing is, no Quick Draws ever missed in the passed, they shouldn't even count as a melee hit anyway, they're magic. They can be resisted, but they shouldn't be missing.

          I did get a couple "Dark Shot fails to take effect" which can be considered a resist, but the majority was "miss" according to the log.

          But again: The majority of Dark Shot missed, they were not resisted.
          Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 12-19-2006, 10:41 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

            Light and Dark Shot "misses" are resists. I got plenty of failed Dispels against imps in Caedarve in the high 60s.


            Icemage

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            • #7
              Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

              Originally posted by Icemage View Post
              Light and Dark Shot "misses" are resists. I got plenty of failed Dispels against imps in Caedarve in the high 60s.


              Icemage
              I'll have to hear that from SE because resists are not logged as misses for RDM or BRD. Magic does not miss in FFXI, resist possibly, but not miss.

              None of the other elemental Quick Draws miss, but resists are shown in diminished damage, but those shots still land. I don't really see the point you're trying to make here.

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              • #8
                Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                just some FYI, landing ranged attacks in mire at 68 is not a consistent thing. have you ever stopped to think its just your rng acc? even as rng with full rng acc gear, i had issues being consistent at that level.
                Not until 70 where I felt my shots were reliable.
                Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
                ♪♫ San d'Oria Complete ♪♫ ZM Complete ♪♫ CoP Complete ♪♫ AM Complete ♪♫

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                • #9
                  Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                  Someone who's actually a COR should weigh in on this. >_> I don't think the rest of us have an entirely clear picture of what's going on.

                  It sounds like Light Shot and Dark Shot are giving both "miss" and "failed to take effect" type messages, whereas other shots are like magic and can't miss but can only be resisted by a %. Is that right?
                  lagolakshmi on Guildwork :: Lago Aletheia on Lodestone

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                    Before this patch, I never had any elemental shot totally miss before. They do get resisted, doing 1/2 and 1/4 damage. But not missing like this : /
                    There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
                    but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
                    transform a yellow spot into the sun.

                    - Pablo Picasso

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                      Quick Draw pre-update never missed, ever.

                      The fact that it is missing now suggests that a "miss" is actually a resist, since Quick Draw still doesn't miss for the other elemental versions. I suspect it's either poor translation or just poor wording on S-E's part, but the in-game effect remains the same; Dark Shot against Dark resistant enemies is logically going to be very inaccurate. Dispel and Sleep suffer from the exact same problem against Dark resistant enemies (Antica, Imps, Demons) even when you're packing a Pluto Staff and a full Enfeebling setup (Dispel is naturally more accurate than Sleep, but I still get the oddball weird resist from such enemies).

                      I don't know what to make of the Light Shot resist problem, except perhaps that it might suffer from low magic accuracy without the presence of an elemental staff or other MACC+ gear to assist it?


                      Icemage

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                        That will be a big slap in Cor's face if we need elemental staves to land the light/dark shots. Missing the RACC = missing slugshots. That's not a viable choice at all imo.
                        There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
                        but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
                        transform a yellow spot into the sun.

                        - Pablo Picasso

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                          Originally posted by Taskmage View Post
                          Someone who's actually a COR should weigh in on this. >_> I don't think the rest of us have an entirely clear picture of what's going on.

                          It sounds like Light Shot and Dark Shot are giving both "miss" and "failed to take effect" type messages, whereas other shots are like magic and can't miss but can only be resisted by a %. Is that right?
                          Before the patch, all either elemental Quick Draws dealt damage, in addition to their threnody-ish effects and debuff enhancements. Those effects still stand with all of them after the update.

                          Quick Draw has various elements it draws from. Magic Attack and Accuracy stats do affect it, as do elemental staves. The actual damage of the Quick Draw is based on the bullet in the gun. On average with no other bonuses factored it, a Quick Draw does 180 damage when unresisted. Resists usually come out as 90 (50% resist) or 20. I've had full resists come out as 0, but that's usually on Undead Swarm in Besieged.

                          Elemental Staves and Moldivite earring can push that to about 220 and if the COR has rolled Wizard's Roll (or actually has access to other Magic Attack gear, which i don't think we do) that damage cap can be pushed a little more.

                          And Magic Accuracy was pretty much the same thing, COR can merit QD Accuracy just like RDM could merit spell accuracy by element. AGI was supposed to be a modifier for QD accuracy to lower resists since we really didn't have a modifier for it outside of merits and Corsair's Tricornne. I guess they did this because the elemental staves and MND/INT builds aren't as practical for COR to drag around with the cards and ammo already.

                          It could just be that resists for Light and Dark shot are mislabeled as misses, Light Shot currently gets labeled as Shadowbind when it does take effect, which is odd, too. Shadowbind is dark-based, but that might explain why Imp resisted that like crazy too. It did say the mob was asleep when Shadowbind happened.

                          Whatever the case is, there are obviously some kinks to work out. I just hate to think I poured gil into an AGI build for nothin'

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                          • #14
                            Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                            A full merited 75 RDM, BLU cannot sleep those mobs very well. I don't think you should as a 67 COR or else, the game will be broken because you can sleep everything every 1 minute. Please try again at lv 75 with full QD accuracy merit, I bet your shots would land as normal.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anyone else getting mass misses on Light and Dark Shot?

                              Originally posted by eva00r View Post
                              A full merited 75 RDM, BLU cannot sleep those mobs very well. I don't think you should as a 67 COR or else, the game will be broken because you can sleep everything every 1 minute. Please try again at lv 75 with full QD accuracy merit, I bet your shots would land as normal.
                              Yes, because full merits at 75 proves everything works just fine, right?

                              I wasn't even really concerned about the sleep aspect, I half expect it with demon-type mobs. Dark Shot is what I'm really having issues with.

                              COR's dispel is dark-based just as RDM's and Fenrir's is. Dark based dispels can see resists, but they're not common, even against dark-based mobs. I'm seeing Dark Shot miss alot on imps, which is kinda damaging to my performance if I'm invited as the only guy who can dispel. If having half my natural base AGI in gear won't help lower resists, along with staves and Magic Acc gear, it would be pretty pathetic that only merits could. So i think in regards to Dark-based mobs and Dark Shot, that Dark Shot is quite broken in contrast to Dispel.

                              I may very well be that misses are resists are one and the same, my Marid PT and PT in Bibki bay yeilded better results with both Light and Dark Shot, though both saw a miss from time to time. If the misses are indeed resists, they should register as resists instead just to be consistant with other magic. Even Physical Blue Magic is still counted as magic and resists will be displayed in the chat log when they occur.

                              All that aside, I find the adjustment to be lacking in other respects after extensive play. If I recall correctly, RDM's Dispel has a recast of 24 seconds, Finale recast is a bit higher at 40-45 seconds. Its kind of frustrating to Dark Shot at the start or middle of a fight, but not be able to follow up with a different QD to support an existing enfeeb for a NIN or forthcoming nuke for a BLM. That or to wait another minute to dispel again whent the mob instantly rebuffs. Its not optimal and having to wait til merits isn't a good way of fixing it.

                              I think it would be better to separate Dark Shot and Light Shot from Quick Draws as their own job abilities. If SE truely wants us to fill the shoes of a RDM or BRD in the support role of a PT, they need to go all the way with it, not halfway. There would be nothing overpowered about giving us a comprable recasts for Dark Shot and Light Shot, it would help us perform our role better in PT.
                              Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 12-21-2006, 06:33 PM.

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