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So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

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  • #16
    Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

    Originally posted by omg...
    give COR access to crossbows.
    agreed :D

    Originally posted by omg...
    As for there not being enough BRDs, not true. There are more BRDs out there than you can shake a stick at. Fact of the matter is lots of people just play it to get into an HNM or horde away merits and never pull it out otherwise. Hell, I'm thinking about rebuilding my BRD just for meritting other jobs.
    I hit 75 on BRD back in early 2005, and I loved every minute of that job. I don't participate in end game; so sadly, the only thing I do on BRD now is is horde merits for other jobs.

    Originally posted by Karinya
    (1) they want to be the person doing the big damage, not the person helping someone else do the big damage
    QFT

    This is the biggest issue; all the "in" jobs at various points in time were because of this. First one I can remember is Penta-spamming DRG's. At one point you couldn't walk two steps without tripping over a RNG/NIN. Then, the "throw as many BLM's as you can at at a problem" solution became popular. Now-a-days, "Spampage" parties are all over.

    People love big numbers; that's what it boils down to. DRG's would land nice penta-damage and instantly have 60% TP, then do it all over again in 20 seconds until that got adjusted. RNG's used to TP like crazy with daggers, and then pop off a high damage ranged weapon skill before they had to worry about their positioning. BLM = BOOM! .

    You don't see big numbers Enfeebling/Enhancing. You will see party members say: "Whoa! Nice Rampage." When was the last time you saw a party member say: "That sure was an awesome Protect,"? or "Holy Cow! Did you see that Ballad?"

    I think SE definitely made a step in the right direction with COR. You have a support class that can supplement those duties with some decent damage.

    Edit:
    I think COR still needs a little work though. First, it just needs a little more exposure, and that will take time. Secondly, they need more access to ranged weapons.

    I unlocked COR, and then was disappointed that I couldn't touch a ranged weapon until 15. Then, on top of that, it isn't even advisable to use such weapons until the 20's (from what I've read). I think this is where crossbows could come into the mix. Nonetheless, I started leveling it; once I got Phantom Roll, I loved it.
    Last edited by Jugil; 02-09-2007, 08:31 AM.
    BST66

    Have you hugged your Taru today =)

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    • #17
      Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

      indeed they have.
      in my opinion they've really outdone themselves with COR, its a bit more original then holding a 10 foot long sword axe or scythe and swinging it.
      Standablaze
      Server: Ramuh
      Jobs: Dark Knight, Red Mage
      Level: Not stated, because I can't be bothered updating 5 signatures when I level. Lets say mid levels.

      英語ができますか

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      • #18
        Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

        Originally posted by Standablaze
        Thats not a jack of all trait, thats a jack of one trait and its something that annoys me personally as an RDM that I'm frowned on if I pull out a sword, eat sushi and actually do decent damage while still doing my job. A lot more traits or job abilities could be given to RDM to help its melee ability which definetly exists and was intended to exist without having to sub NIN.
        I don't entirely agree that RDMs do decent damage, its pretty low compared it any hit a DD class can land, even with enspells factored in. Plus the shortswords RDM is relegated to make for a slow TP build even with /NIN. Now, I'll grant you COR is in the same boat and does even less sword damage, but it can help their TP build for Slug Shot, which totally makes up for that and blows RDM's melee out of the water. COR should not be TPing exclusively with swords and daggers in any case, the gun should always be part of that.

        As I said before, I think a boost to Enspell damage is needed. It boggles my mind that my RNG's Holy Bolts add more additional damage than a RDM Enspell. RNG doesn't even use magic, yet we can add 30 more damage to a holy bolt before we even get into MND builds. Doesn't make too much sense and I'm certainly not complaining about it as a RNG, but RDMs should be.

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        • #19
          Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

          Our Enspells are just fine. I've never really felt like "wow, I sure wish I was doing X more damage per swing." Not that it wouldn't be nice, but we already do just fine.

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          • #20
            Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

            I kind of agree with 'kitten. It never bothered me much since I rarely noticed what a RNG could do with holy bolts, but I see where she's coming from.

            More than anything, I'd like to see elemental weakness/strength added to en-spells, it never made sense that I could hit a mob elementally weak to lightning with Enthunder, but do no more damage than if I'd casted Enfire.

            Oh, and allow RDMs to add en-spell damage to ranged attacks. That'd be spiffy.

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            • #21
              Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

              Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
              I don't entirely agree that RDMs do decent damage, its pretty low compared it any hit a DD class can land, even with enspells factored in. Plus the shortswords RDM is relegated to make for a slow TP build even with /NIN. Now, I'll grant you COR is in the same boat and does even less sword damage, but it can help their TP build for Slug Shot, which totally makes up for that and blows RDM's melee out of the water. COR should not be TPing exclusively with swords and daggers in any case, the gun should always be part of that.

              As I said before, I think a boost to Enspell damage is needed. It boggles my mind that my RNG's Holy Bolts add more additional damage than a RDM Enspell. RNG doesn't even use magic, yet we can add 30 more damage to a holy bolt before we even get into MND builds. Doesn't make too much sense and I'm certainly not complaining about it as a RNG, but RDMs should be.
              I wouldn't want to compare an RDMs melee damage to something like a DRK or a MNK but what I meant was that RDMs have potential to do some decent damage and its generally looked down on. People have a black and white mentality that if you can afford to do melee damage you arent doing your job right and its backward and annoying.

              Enspells help, but they dont do a whole lot of damage so a boost to those would be quite nice. Hitting 40 with a sword and another 10 damage with an Enspell is nice for an RDM, hitting 40 with a sword and 20-25 with an Enspell is even better and personally I would call that quite a good DD considering RDMs other role, what they would still lack in is spike damage from a WS but thats probably askin for too much

              Maybe I'm over-estimating RDM.
              Standablaze
              Server: Ramuh
              Jobs: Dark Knight, Red Mage
              Level: Not stated, because I can't be bothered updating 5 signatures when I level. Lets say mid levels.

              英語ができますか

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              • #22
                Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

                I don't know about other RDMs, but the only time I even care about what damage I do melee-wise is when I'm soloing or doing something with a small group. I can see where a boost to enspell damage would be nice (because hey, more damage is more damage) but I think we do just fine.

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                • #23
                  Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

                  I like the concepts, Omg. I think Triple cast is over-the-top, and even double cast should have the 2nd cast cost the same mp, if not more. An MP discount isn't what's really needed. It's just the time issue, no?

                  Haste spell is 15%, I think for an a haste ability for cor, your numbers aren't bad. Maybe add 1-2% to them. Afterall, S-E doesn't make everything supremely useful (hahhaha Drachen Roll). And even 1 second shaved off of your utsusemi recast times can be a godsend. The ability's not designed to be humongous, afterall.

                  Rdm can do just fine damage. The problem is that they need melee food to hit respectable numbers (if you have 3 melee doing 700 damage/fight, you're telling me you wouldn't want another free 3-400 damage? Come now, where's your logic?) and of course, a Bard or Corsair in the party will hate them for messing with the songs. Oh, and more melee just means more confusion for setting up initial SATA.

                  Enspells add what? 10-15 extra damage/swing? that's the difference between Berserked and non-Berserked melee. I say that as long as the Rdm waits 'til after initial enfeebles land (to give time for SATA), I don't mind if they melee assuming they keep up with their other tasks. Only 5% of RDMs can accomplish this. The other 95% are why Rdm melee is so taboo.

                  The fact that Blue Mage exists means that you'll probably never ever see an increase to Rdm melee.

                  There's a flavor thing to COR with guns... they'll never get Crossbows.
                  "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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                  • #24
                    Re: So you think BRD, COR and RDM don't need further adjustments, eh?

                    Not every party has SATA and since RDMs dont do much damage they arent exactly getting in the way of one either. You stay to the side of the mob, the only way I'm going to pull hate from the mob is if I spam Cure 4.

                    I believe Berserk is a lot more effective then Enspells, not to mention jobs that do use Berserk from a sub usually can put out 70+ damage a hit and then pull off a weaponskill that is going to do at least 300+, you may not mind RDMs eating sushi and melee but I've gotten some odd stares about it in the past and /tells with people freaking out about it and its just annoying.

                    You're right though sayig that with the existance of BLU, RDM are being fucked up the arse melee-wise for an EXP party.
                    Standablaze
                    Server: Ramuh
                    Jobs: Dark Knight, Red Mage
                    Level: Not stated, because I can't be bothered updating 5 signatures when I level. Lets say mid levels.

                    英語ができますか

                    Comment

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