Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

[Dymlos]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

There are days where I don't want to do anything but I'm willing to take some of my time for Beseiged. Especially since it's always fun. ^^

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

How does this help SE though? They *need* you to play the game, to keep parties, the economy, and their budget moving.

It helps SE by reducing the number of players logged in, standing around Al Zahbi, semi-AFK waiting for Besieged. There will still be plenty of other players who are logged in to party, quest, do missions, craft, etc. But at least network and server resources won't be getting tied up by players just want to get in a little bit of casual gaming.

[Feba]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

This would be helpful if I'm online and was wondering if Beseiged was going to happen or not. It would also save me time so I don't have to hop on the game to see if it's going on.

How does this help SE though? They *need* you to play the game, to keep parties, the economy, and their budget moving.

probable, but highly unlikely due to legal ramifications

Legal ramifications? I highly doubt they're *modifying* SE's server, just accessing it. Considering that each and every person that plays the game does it on nearly a daily basis, I doubt it's very hard to do for someone who is familiar with the FFXI client.

[Dymlos]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

What I would like to see is a plugin for Firefox on Besieged status. This would be helpful if I'm online and was wondering if Beseiged was going to happen or not. It would also save me time so I don't have to hop on the game to see if it's going on.

[Amele]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

However, we know that's not the case, as the prices are adjusted within the day, and seems like more than once daily.
The possiblities are as follows:
-A team of data gatherers logging in every day, simultaneously collecting information, with each individual assigned a list of servers to connect to (plausible)
-The server is connected directly to SE's database and polls in this manner, to provide consistent and timely updates to their website (probable, but highly unlikely due to legal ramifications)
-Data is donated by a group that has the ability to collect data across the board, in such a way, that every single server is polled simultaneously, without the need to have a single collection character logged out for any reason (very possible)
The latter option makes me suspect of RMT helping out with this project. They're the only ones that can have huge numbers of active account and can easily "donate" a few for the sole purpose of data collecting using illegal botting. Since the data is donated, receiving the data is not considered breaking ToS versus other methods which might (since they involve 3rd party software to achieve)

- the first is pretty unlikely given that the actual sale histories update at a minimum rate of hourly, and in some high volume cases (mostly craft materials) more frequently than that. to update the entire AH every hour of every day for every server manually would be an unreasonable number of man-hours. the averages only update periodically because of the calculation time involved on the FFXIAH end.

- this is my bet. it would even be legal if the SE auction house servers provide the data 'in the clear' (which is what I suspect)

- given the general stance of the community at large I doubt that they would've gone this route. it also wouldn't require the kind of talent they gathered together for the project if this was the case.

[tdh]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Could you give us a way to see information related to the status of Besieged just in the chat window? I know we can gather that information by checking the besieged map. But to see the more detailed information (e.g. the number of forces for the Mamool Ja Savages), not only do I have to bring up the map, but I then have to scroll over to a specific spot on the map.
For instance, the command /bstatus (analagous to /bmap) could output the following information to the chat window:

Mamool Ja Savages -- Training: 98, Archaic Mirrors: 8, Prisoners: 1
Troll Mercenaries -- Preparing: 168, Archaic Mirrors: 8, Prisoners: 0
Undead Swarm -- Training: 99, Archaic Mirrors: 0, Prisoners: 0
Orders: Invade Enemy Base

Wow... I know a lot of our posts get derailed, but this was almost never on track.

I like this idea. Depending on what area you're in /bmap isn't any less work than using the menu. But having a way to check on Besieged activity that doesn't require logging in is a great idea. Whether it's an unofficial/3rd party tool or a an applet on the web page. Just as I was reading Lyonheart's post mentioning the disclaimer it occurred to me. Don't forget your job, your homework, or your family, but in order to participate in Besieged you have to log in and check in-game to do so. I've asked for this in every poll/survey S-E's had since Besieged was released. Hell, currently we have to rely on user updated page on the Wiki to view each server's Besieged record. Before Lakshmi's original lose a few people decided to jump on and give us 10 loses at random. An official page that showed the "State of the Union" with records and current defenses would be very helpful. I don't have to stop what I'm doing and go check on Besieged I can just pop up the web page and login or keep working on something else.

[Aeni]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Given the speed that I've seen FFXIAH update sells, I wouldn't think that either someone or some bot is logging in, parsing all the files, logging out, logging in another char on another server, parsing all files, so on and so on.

Just doesn't seem practical to do it that way, how many item catagories are thier on the ah? Every single and stack of items, toolbags, quivers, armor, weapons, misc. and all that? Suppose they could do that, but I would think they'd have someone logged in continously if they were gathering the data that way.

You don't need a paypal account to donate, all major credit cards accepted. Use the Paypal button on the right to donate. Our current hosting expense is $450/month. We spent several hours developing and maintaining this site and it has been very fun and rewarding to us all. Thank you for all the contributions.
--Matt, Cliff, Dorian

Notice, they don't ever mention account fees. They're asking for donations covering this monthly fee for hosting at $450 a month.

Now, let's imagine what you would need to get a quick turn-around on the updates on their website:

Each time a character logs on, he checks the AH. He then has to check each and every listing, parse the data and then collect it in a temporary storage. This storage then gets processed before being uploaded to their online database (presumably, updating the record sets on their website)

Now, to manually obtain this information, you realize how long it will take for every entry? It will take minimum half an hour and depends on how active a server is.

Just imagine having to cycle through for each server. If a single person would to do this, it would take almost a week to update the main database.

However, we know that's not the case, as the prices are adjusted within the day, and seems like more than once daily.

The possiblities are as follows:

-A team of data gatherers logging in every day, simultaneously collecting information, with each individual assigned a list of servers to connect to (plausible)

-The server is connected directly to SE's database and polls in this manner, to provide consistent and timely updates to their website (probable, but highly unlikely due to legal ramifications)

-Data is donated by a group that has the ability to collect data across the board, in such a way, that every single server is polled simultaneously, without the need to have a single collection character logged out for any reason (very possible)

The latter option makes me suspect of RMT helping out with this project. They're the only ones that can have huge numbers of active account and can easily "donate" a few for the sole purpose of data collecting using illegal botting. Since the data is donated, receiving the data is not considered breaking ToS versus other methods which might (since they involve 3rd party software to achieve)

[Feba]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Don't use bots anymore. I know for a fact that they used to, I talked to one of them awhile ago, back before they supported all servers, and when they did have to have a character logged in and standing at the AH. That process took 24 hours to scan the entire AH, so it wasn't quick and easy.

[Amele]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

he's indicated before that they aren't using bots to update the ffxiah.com lists.

he has not gone into detail how he's doing it exactly but the hints are mostly there for people that understand server/client architecture (at all) - and it's his discretion how much he reveals, so I won't spoil it by speculating on the specifics.

suffice to say he's not botting the AH to get the information.

[Cotners]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Slight nitpick: it would be 12.95 x 4 + 1.00 x 28 = $79.80, since you can have up to 10 characters on one account, and they can all be on different servers. That's substantially less than 12.95 x 32 = $414.40. $80 a month is still a lot of money... but so is hosting a web site. I wonder what they're web hosting costs are each month. It's not like you can get away with using free web hosting from Angelfire for the hard drive and traffic needs of something like FFXIAH.

Could FFXIAH bypass the need for 32 separate characters by connecting directly to the AH servers? If I were SE, I would be far more afraid of allowing that to happen than to allow players to parse text files for information that's already in plain text.

Exept you can't log onto a main character and a mule at the same time if they are both under the same handle.

[Necropolis]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Given the speed that I've seen FFXIAH update sells, I wouldn't think that either someone or some bot is logging in, parsing all the files, logging out, logging in another char on another server, parsing all files, so on and so on.

Just doesn't seem practical to do it that way, how many item catagories are thier on the ah? Every single and stack of items, toolbags, quivers, armor, weapons, misc. and all that? Suppose they could do that, but I would think they'd have someone logged in continously if they were gathering the data that way.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

I'd highly doubt that ffxiah.com would pay to keep a character logged in on every server. I would think they have a way of circumventing that step and gathering information via another sorce.

If they were paying 12.95X32 and offering that information for free or donations, they are some rather generous people.

Slight nitpick: it would be 12.95 x 4 + 1.00 x 28 = $79.80, since you can have up to 10 characters on one account, and they can all be on different servers. That's substantially less than 12.95 x 32 = $414.40. $80 a month is still a lot of money... but so is hosting a web site. I wonder what they're web hosting costs are each month. It's not like you can get away with using free web hosting from Angelfire for the hard drive and traffic needs of something like FFXIAH.

Could FFXIAH bypass the need for 32 separate characters by connecting directly to the AH servers? If I were SE, I would be far more afraid of allowing that to happen than to allow players to parse text files for information that's already in plain text.

[Feba]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

Surely, FFXIAH doesn't directly connect to the AH servers to get listings and sales histories.

Well, they didn't used to... Cliff won't really talk about it, but he has hinted that he *could* do that if he wanted to (and I'm sure reading the servers is a lot easier than their old "use a bot to run through every item, and parse the chat logs" approach.)

That said, remember, this forum is for QUESTIONS, NOT FEATURES, IDEAS, OR SUGGESTIONS. On that alone this will never get answered, but do you *really* think the best way to encourage SE to do something is to talk about how it would make it easier for people to use third party tools?!

[Necropolis]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

I'd highly doubt that ffxiah.com would pay to keep a character logged in on every server. I would think they have a way of circumventing that step and gathering information via another sorce.

If they were paying 12.95X32 and offering that information for free or donations, they are some rather generous people.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Can we have a command to see Besieged status in the chat window?

I've never seen an official statement from SE about their stance on FFXIAH.com - it is important to note, however, that the way FFXIAH is coded, it does not interact directly with the game engine - only with the AH servers' listing and history system.

the proposed chat lines requested here for the intended example purpose that Lyonheart outlined, would be a pretty clear-cut case of something that violates the ToS (if for a benign purpose.) I personally am not against tools of this nature, but I seriously doubt SE will go to the trouble of implementing a feature specifically intended to aid in violation of the ToS (no matter how benign) out of game.

I'm not sure I see the difference between what FFXIAH does, and what I was suggesting could be done for gathering and reporting Besieged related information.

For FFXIAH to work, two things have to happen:
1. A FFXI character is used to open the AH menu and check the stock of items, and all sales records for that item.
2. Some software takes that information and stores it off in a database.

The suggestion I made would involve:
1. A FFXI character is used to issue the command /bstatus (or whatever) to see Besieged related information.
2. Some software parses the text files where chat messages are stored, and stores it off in a database.

What's the difference? Or do I misunderstand the mechanism FFXIAH uses to gather transaction information? Surely, FFXIAH doesn't directly connect to the AH servers to get listings and sales histories.