Wait a moment. 1 +1 = . . .

[Yellow Mage]

So, we're all aware on how über-awesome AF3 +2 is (or, dare I say . . . überpimp?). And talk of upgrading Relic alongside Empyrean weapons led only to the next logical train of thought: Artifact and Relic armor upgradable alongside Empyrean armor.

After all, we have Empyrean armor +2 now, do we not? Who's to say that there isn't room for Artifact armor +2, or Relic armor +2? Some of the more classic of those sets, even accounting for their already existent +1 versions, could definitely stand to benefit from a more modern re-imagining of their stats, perhaps even with long-since-requested Set effects.

Who's to say either way? Yay speculation thread, mewmewmew . . .

[Karinya]

Re: Wait a moment. 1 +1 = . . .

IMO, one set of trials to go from normal to +2, and a parallel set of trials to go from +1 to +3, and allowing the original set of upgrade items to upgrade +2 to +3 would be the best way to handle it. That way you can do both upgrades in either order and still end up with a result usable at 99.

This is probably going to look screwed up, but I hope you get the idea.

. . . . /--Limbus materials + ABCs------> AF+1 --------------Trial(s)--------------v
Original AF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . AF+3
. . . . \---------------Trial(s)-----------> AF+2 ----Limbus materials + ABCs------^

and the same for relic, but substituting "relic-1 and dynamis money". Both sets of trials should be the same or similar, so that it doesn't matter (or at least doesn't matter much) which upgrade you do first -- otherwise people who have already upgraded to +1 might be unreasonably penalized.

Alternatively, they could just not do the bottom line at all and have +2 and +3 be successive stages of trials, but then you would *have* to do the dynamis/limbus upgrade before starting the trials, which seems a little harsh to people who might have trouble finding dynamis/limbus shells (especially for AF, where everyone has the base form, but lack of limbus would block them from even starting to upgrade).

The trouble is, this would involve quite a lot of work for SE (20 jobs * 2 sets * 5 pieces * however many stages they want each trial set to have, plus designing the stats on +2/+3...) *and* it would mean players in the 90s would be going back through level 75 content, which I don't know if SE wants to encourage or kill. (OTOH, level 75 content is still where you get the base levels of relic and mythic weapons so that you can start upgrading those through trials, not to mention Aegis and Gjallarhorn which don't need trials to be awesome at any level, so some people will probably still do them even if the armor is junk, so you might as well put in a way for the armor to become non-junk to 90s. Likewise, D-ring and possibly some other "old endgame" drops will probably not stop being brokenly good until the servers die.)

Similarly, people who have Limbus boss sets, the osode set, abjuration, Nyzul, Salvage, or Assault Points armors would probably like to have trial sets to upgrade them to something usable at high levels, too. Maybe even the rare/ex Allied Note gear. But again, that's time SE would have to spend on designing the upgraded gear and the trial lines instead of completely new content, and it might be attractive to 90s who don't already have the level 75 base piece, which would lead them to going back through level 75 content that isn't balanced for them so that then they can start their trials to upgrade it to the corresponding level 90+ piece. (I've heard people are already lowmanning Nyzul successfully, if you don't get the wrong kind of switch floor.)

I'm in favor of the idea, but that might have something to do with all the level 70-75 rare/ex gear (68, if you count the Iron Ram tanking set) I already have cluttering up my safe/satchel/storage and mostly not being worth wearing compared to the super cheap and easy to get cruor sets. A lot of other players are in the same boat, but SE also has to consider new players (there are some) or players leveling new jobs that don't already have level 75 endgame gear for those jobs -- making them detour through level 75 content to get gear for their level 90 char might be a little weird. (On the other hand, they could wear the cruor sets, their next equivalent, or any high-level crafted gear until they get their hands on the rare/ex stuff, the same way people used to when they just got to the 70s.)

[Romyro]

Re: Wait a moment. 1 +1 = . . .

I’m not opposing more AF/Relic trials but do you think those can even be salvaged? How does AF+1/Relic fair for other jobs? Of the AF+1/Relic pieces that I have (~21 between my 3 jobs)…I now only use like 4 pieces. Which may as well be knocked out come December anyway since they are hand/body pieces.

AF+1 was awesome for Bst when they used to charm…but now they’ve just turned into Primal Rend pieces. Actually there not even that any more since Emp I think has equal or higher Chr. +Charm is pointless at this point. Bst AF Head+1 is probably the only piece I use now and that’s only for Reward purposes (the highest MND piece I could find). Bst relic has 2 good pieces imo. Hands for Call Beast and Feet for Reward. Both pieces still holding their own for their intended purposes. But the other ones suck. There are better charming pieces than the Monster Helm (again…not that we charm anymore). Body and legs are just crap.

Smn AF+1 pieces have been destroyed by Emp armor so far. Smns pretty much went after maybe 2 pieces (feet and maybe head). Both Emp horn and feet render those useless. Nashira hands are still a solid choice atm but we’ll see come the next update how Emp hands wipe those out as well. Smn Relic hands and Body are great imo but again…it’s hands and body. I’m anticipating some crazy good stats for the Emp versions. Relic horn can be good, but it’s uses were pretty limited (weather). I still think Emp Horn wins over relic horn.

Pup AF+1 hands are great but seeing as how no Pup Emp armor has ‘enhance overload’ er whatever yet, I’m sure I can kiss them goodbye soon as well. As for my Pup AF+1 Feet…Emp Feet pretty much offer the same stats plus more :/. Pup relic is starting to lose some of it’s shine as well. MKE pants replaced my Relic legs & EMP replaced the feet. I do like the head for those moments where you need just a few more HP to deactivate safely. Body has always been meh to me. Relic hands are pretty nice but they’re hands…

And these are all comparing to the Emp+1 upgrades.

As far as Relic goes…isn’t there very little difference between Relic and Relic+1? At least with AF and Emp, there were significant changes when upgraded. Wouldn’t AF and Relic need to be revamps A LOT to even compete?

[Karinya]

Re: Wait a moment. 1 +1 = . . .

Wouldn’t AF and Relic need to be revamps A LOT to even compete?

Well, considering that they'd be increasing in level requirement by 20 or more, I hope the devs would add a lot to them.

AF2 and AF2+1 have almost the same level requirements, that's why their stats aren't all that different. The point would be for the upgraded AF+2/3 and AF2+2/3 to have stats worthy of level 90+ gear -- i.e. not getting destroyed by level 78 vendor trash the way practically every level 70-75 rare/ex piece is now.

And a lot of crappy AF pieces turn into decent (for 75) af+1, so the fact that the original piece isn't that great doesn't prevent SE from putting good stats on the upgrade.