Abyssea Experiences

[Vyuru]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

BLU is apparently just not as much of a melee as people think it is. Is this parse counting his spell damage? Did he have Battery Charge or some other source of refresh? Most sword WS are pretty bad too, as the parse shows.

I suspect it has more to do with gear and food eaten. I see alot of Blu in poor TP gear at 75+, but totally awesome spell casting gear. Whereas I have really good TP gear (needs work though) and what I'd call "average" spell casting gear.

Speaking for myself as Blu in Abyssea, I have far higher than 44.74% accuracy on mobs, and my Vorpal Blades do somewhere in the 400-600 range I think, sometimes higher sometimes lower.

[Ketaru]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

And again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandMom
I just stated something that I disliked. If other people choose to treat others that way, that's their choice. Just as it's my choice to choose not to party with people like that.

It's your opinion and so I cannot post that I disagree with you? I can accept that you want to "fuck parsers and penalizing players blah blah." I can also post that I think you're wrong. But go ahead and keep and quoting this over and over until you forget this is a supposed to be a place for discussion.

I don't like it that BSTs wear full CHR and don't call pets to their Abyssea groups. It is my choice not to party with them. Doesn't change the fact that some other group is inviting them and dragging my job's name through the mud somewhere else. It is in my every right to say I hate them and I hope party's have the sense to give them the boot the size of Italy.

[Karinya]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

My post and Itaz's went up at the same time, so here's some reactions... Wow, 4 PLD? And only one using a DD build?

The main thing that stands out to me is the huge number of PLD, honestly. Clearly you know how to make DD PLD work pretty darn well, but the majority don't (or don't have the gear, I admit to being curious what setup lets you outdamage several DRGs and MNKs), and it shows here.

Another interesting thing is that Garuda apparently outdamaged everyone... unless there were 2+ SMN using Garuda and the parser combined their damage.

I'm impressed by the acc numbers from the DRGs (especially with one joining at 74), but then, we do have acc bonus, and 2/3 had Hasso as well. :D

If the THF/NIN wasn't pulling or popping chests he might have gotten more mileage out of a more DD-ish sub, but sadly that seems like a lost art for THFs these days. The dynamics of abyssea undercut THF DD pretty bad, though (try lining up a SA or TA in there). Dagger weaponskills suck without SA and/or TA, on top of the fact that daggers are not so great to begin with.

And from a DD perspective, DNC is like a THF with lower skill that can't *ever* get off a SA or TA - either you're getting them for support/healing functions as well as damage, or don't bother. (That one possibly should have been kicked, but for his behavior, not just low DPS. I do support kicking people whose obvious stupidity is hindering the functioning of the alliance, if they refuse to correct their behavior when asked to do so.)

BLU is apparently just not as much of a melee as people think it is. Is this parse counting his spell damage? Did he have Battery Charge or some other source of refresh? Most sword WS are pretty bad too, as the parse shows.

I'd suspect the low acc people were skilling up because they did 55-75 at the leypoint or something, but that doesn't explain the guy with Sanguine Blade and ~50% hit rate -- he has to be fairly high level, and skilled up too. And you probably would have mentioned if he was fighting in full Koenig. XD

Overall, I sort of see your point, but I don't think it's an accident that most of the one-handers are coming up at the bottom of the chart, either.

P.S. You may not have had BRD or COR, but you had DNC and BLU -- were they keeping up eva or def debuffs? That would put a dent in their personal damage but improve everyone else's, in a way a parser can't really account for. But not everyone knows the power of those types of abilities or uses them to full effectiveness.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

Perhaps a bit of number dumping can convince you

This is your primary flaw in thinking. Srsly.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

On the other hand, you followed directly from Karinya's post that is in reference to Ifritnoitazura thinking that people should be booted until 30 seconds a kill can be achieved. You said yourself, you are talking about people who "penalize people who don't have the best equips, don't have as many merits...fuck parsers and people that discriminate against good players when they use them." Cause that last part sounds exactly like Ifritnoitazura's suggestion for Abyssea.

How about don't fuck parsers and tell people to do what they were invited for? No need to check either because their being AFK all the time will do it to them. The parsers won't tell you who is going AFK or who is poorly geared. The parser is just telling you who is plain not contributing to the group effort.

And again...

I just stated something that I disliked. If other people choose to treat others that way, that's their choice. Just as it's my choice to choose not to party with people like that.

[Karinya]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

You make it sound as if Ifritnoitazura is just out to kick anybody that doesn't have E Body, Exalibur, Black Belt, at least 20% Haste, 3 different pieces of Refresh gear, or Kraken Club.

So did Itaz. How else do you read "keep replacing the melees with the lowest accuracy or DPS"? If the standard is defined by people who do have uber gear, then the ones that don't are going to be the ones that don't measure up by the parser. (Assuming parity of support jobs, but although I'm pretty sure Itaz knows that someone in a BRD party and someone in a non-BRD party can't have their DPS compared directly, there's probably someone reading that post who won't think of it and will keep kicking the people in the non-BRD party for their inferior DPS.)

I dunno, maybe Itaz's server has a lot of people who did 37-75 in East Ron[S] and have the weapon skill to prove it, but it looked to me more like "keep kicking until you have an alliance of haijins".

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

I don't know about you, but I think seeing people booted because the leader didn't like their parse stats wouldn't be good for my morale. Even if I wasn't there as a DPS I'd be wondering if I was next.

Are you sure? Would booting useless people really be bad for morale?

Think back to exp and merit pickup parties. Say, RDM and WHM in mid level party, and the RDM isn't enfeebling (not even a Dia II), not curing, not casting Refresh on the WHM, and not casting Haste on anyone. Are you happy? Or would you prefer if that RDM is replaced by someone more useful?

How about the DD with under 200 damage WS in a merit party? And missing half of his swings? Want someone better?

Generally speaking, people who contribute want others in party/alliance to contribute, too. Knowing off the bat that the leader won't tolerate leeches (and I don't mean the box opener) is knowing from the start that one is getting a group which will likely reward his efforts by getting him decent exp/hr.

But especially if I was a DPS in a party without BRD or COR support, because the people with that support are going to outparse me without hardly trying... parsers have a lot of limitations.

Parser has limitations, but no BRD or COR--not even BRD AND COR together--can do all that much with a DD who has base hit rate under 40%. (Yes, I've seen that.)

If everyone is performing reasonably well, you will kill stuff under 30 secs. As I said, all I wanted to do is to reach that mark by replacing dead weight with people who'd actually contribute; not keep whetting down the DDs until everyone is whimpering in fear. lol.

Perhaps a bit of number dumping can convince you that there may be a need for this in some alliances. Here's one without COR or BRD:

Player--------------Total-DPS---M.Acc-%---WS.Avg--Notes-------------------------------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxx-MNK/WAR-------26.65---70.76-%---436.99--------------------------------------------------------------------
xxxxx-SAM/???-----------24.62---67.49-%---593.35--Had-Ageha;-used-1-time.-------------------------------------------
Itazura-PLD/NIN---------23.56---92.61-%---456.54--Dual-Wield;-Vorpal-Blade-build------------------------------------
xxxxxx-DRG/SAM----------20.42---83.33-%---437.29--Had-Sonic-Thrust;-mostly-used-Penta-Thrust------------------------
xxxxxxx-DRG/WAR---------17.65---85.00-%---345.22--Joined-at-Lv.74---------------------------------------------------
xxxxxx-MNK/WAR----------15.19---51.93-%---420.07--Joined-at-Lv.75---------------------------------------------------
xxxxx-DRG/SAM-----------13.86---88.24-%---439.50--Wheeling-Thrust-only----------------------------------------------
xxxxxx-MMK/WAR----------13.40---69.58-%---355.31--Lv71-or-72?--Supposedly?------------------------------------------
xxxxxx-PLD/WAR----------12.92---72.00-%---233.27--Atonement-only----------------------------------------------------
xxxxx-WHM/NIN------------8.72---75.08-%---131.97--About-half-Hexa-Strike,-half-Mystic-Boon--------------------------
xxxxxx-PLD/WAR-----------7.11---52.44-%---305.24--Has-Saguine-Blade;-used-that-more-than-half-of-the-time.----------
xxxxxxxx-DNC/???---------6.85---72.08-%---229.89--Spent-most-of-his-TP-curing-himself,-since-he-liked-to-solo...----
xxxxxx-BLU/???-----------5.83---44.74-%---110.50--Joined-shortly-before-I-left;-maybe-was-still-warming-up?---------
xxxxx-THF/NIN------------5.42---55.04-%---252.25--98%-Dancing-Edge.-------------------------------------------------
xxxxxx-PLD/WAR-----------2.27---28.15-%----38.00--Vorpal-Blade.--Full-timed-Adaman-Cuirass/Cuisses;-Macuahuitl-(+1?)
Ember--------------------4.22---68.66-%
Firewing-----------------2.77---58.50-%
Max----------------------3.30---57.47-%
Garuda------------------35.30---65.22-%


0. Pickup group; when I was invited, there were already PLD/WAR x2 in alliance.
1. Main job and SJ inferred from WS's, JAs, and spells used. I don't know the level of most people; didn't take screenshot, but obviously those who used 300 skill WS's were closer to 80 than 70.


Just looking at the melee accuracy, I'd be very tempted to get rid of the THF and the BLU on the bottom. Not to mention the turtle PLD/WAR, especially since he was barely using Provoke, Flash, or Cure.

It might be worth bringing half a dozen pizzas and offering them to people who seem to need them, though. They're pretty cheap, aren't they? And they last 3 hours, so by the time you've identified who needs them, one pizza should pretty much last them the rest of the party unless they die.

Inventory issues aside, I don't think pizza would help that THF with 55.04% hit rate all that much, and would be waste of a good food on the PLD with 38 damage Vorpal Blade--he did one WS the entire time he was there. lol.

Frequent AFK or d/c are another matter, of course. But kicking people who are trying but just don't have as good gear or are only 75/76... idk, I'd expect that to piss off as many people as it impressed.

Does 55.04% hit rate really qualifies as 'trying'? I've seen even worse in other alliances; there's got to be a cut off somewhere.

[Ketaru]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

On the other hand, you followed directly from Karinya's post that is in reference to Ifritnoitazura thinking that people should be booted until 30 seconds a kill can be achieved. You said yourself, you are talking about people who "penalize people who don't have the best equips, don't have as many merits...fuck parsers and people that discriminate against good players when they use them." Cause that last part sounds exactly like Ifritnoitazura's suggestion for Abyssea.

How about don't fuck parsers and tell people to do what they were invited for? No need to check either because their being AFK all the time will do it to them. The parsers won't tell you who is going AFK or who is poorly geared. The parser is just telling you who is plain not contributing to the group effort.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

You make it sound as if Ifritnoitazura is just out to kick anybody that doesn't have E Body, Exalibur, Black Belt, at least 20% Haste, 3 different pieces of Refresh gear, or Kraken Club.

Excuse me? I didn't quote him AND I stated...

Ya I just get sick hearing in the ls about shit like this.

Then I gave an example specific to my ls and my experiences. I didn't make him sound like anything, I just stated something that I disliked. If other people choose to treat others that way, that's their choice. Just as it's my choice to choose not to party with people like that.

[Ketaru]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

; ; I need Dusk+1 to get 20% Haste...think I have 18 or 19% right now.

[MrMageo]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

well to be fair if I have 420(ish) ATK and 20% haste with 90% ACC as a RDM, then some DD's should be kicked. It pains me to see myself higher on a parse than most jobs other than 2 handers, when RDM melee is so LOL. Havent done it in abyssea yet, but I am sure I will see the same shit their. Would I kick them, probably not but I would say "Hey XXXXX you realize you are getting out damage by a RDM/DNC right, go g RDM melee!!!!".

Seriously some people need to take more pride in what they are doing. But I wouldn't kick them over it I would just remember their name for next time and say sorry but you are terrible. Not overly fair to parse for an hour and then say oh btw, X,Y,Z you are getting repped, sorry you just wasted an hour but your damage is 4% lower than that guy over there.

Especially lame when it takes 60 hours to accumulate enough stones to really keep going in there.

[Ketaru]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

Ya I just get sick hearing in the ls about shit like this. I understand if someone is a screw up and replacing them but penalizing them because they don't have the best equips, don't have as many merits, etc. is nasty.

You make it sound as if Ifritnoitazura is just out to kick anybody that doesn't have E Body, Exalibur, Black Belt, at least 20% Haste, 3 different pieces of Refresh gear, or Kraken Club.

How about just replacing party members until the alliance is capable of killing the mob in 30 seconds? Really, those Pachypodiums that are taking 2 minutes to kill are just wasting everybody's time. People can say they aren't leeching all they want, but what do you call it if 45% of the damage output is between 3 damage dealers in an entire alliance made up of mostly damage dealers?

Personally, I think every group leader should just tell their group that they are parsing, even if they aren't. At least make people "think" they're being watched.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

I don't know about you, but I think seeing people booted because the leader didn't like their parse stats wouldn't be good for my morale. Even if I wasn't there as a DPS I'd be wondering if I was next.

Ya I just get sick hearing in the ls about shit like this. I understand if someone is a screw up and replacing them but penalizing them because they don't have the best equips, don't have as many merits, etc. is nasty. I sit in the ls and listen to them yammer on about a guys equips and how he should have this or this and maybe he'd be doing better..blah blah blah. Someone asks if he's doing his job and the others say that ya he's doing what he should but he just doesn't have the output. Then a short time later another ls member logs on and asks if anyone wants to exp and the next thing you hear is "Oh ya, come join us! We'll kick this guy because we'd rather have you!" I really really hate that shit. They tried that with me once when I logged on and I just logged right back out. Seriously...fuck parsers and people that discriminate against good players when they use them.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

What I am curious of is, If I join a group in progress thats been there for 2-3 hours, will I get the same EXP (lets say 300) or will I start at the bottom of the barrel (70).

Your exp starts the moment you're within range of gaining experience points. It starts at the lowest level, differs based on your level. For example, a level 30 will start at roughly 10exp per kill while a level 80 nearer 100 or 150. You gain no benefit exp wise from joining an established alliance other than the fact they should be well into the higher exp/cruor/time extension chests. If you disconnect your exp level doesn't reset either like it does if you leave the zone for any reason.

[MrMageo]

Re: Abyssea Experiences

Did my first Abyssea last night, was kind of rushed into it (only 2 stones) but a good friend really needed a BRD and I was only in CBattles at the time so I obliged. For the hour I was there I found it interesting, EXP started a little slow, (about 70 a kill) but when I got booted we were at about 120 or so. Unfortunately we didn't get any time chests in the time I was there before I got ported out (and according to my buddy they didnt get any until 10-15 minutes left and ran out of time any way).

Just from first impressions I think it is great, it is so nice to see, PUP;s and THF's and BLM's and SMN's and NIN's and all those other secondary jobs that suck in old meripo's but rocked endgame. It was really a lot of fun partying with an alliance. My only gripe is that people don't pay attention, we took for ever to get our lights up (pearl and azure) because DD's kept killing with WS giving us some other color light that wasn't very useful to us.

I think that anything less than 90 minutes is not worth the trip, I came out with about 8K in on hour, which needless to say is pretty shitty (considering I could triple that with a decent meripo set up sync'd on birds and then some). But once you get those TE's and the EXP goes to 300 (or 600 if you stay that long) I think it could have real promise.

What I am curious of is, If I join a group in progress thats been there for 2-3 hours, will I get the same EXP (lets say 300) or will I start at the bottom of the barrel (70).

I am kind of torn, because from what ive heard you need 3-4 hours to party to get to like 40-50k/hr. Is that really any better than taking a couple friends and wrecking birds for 3-4 hours for 25-30K/hr? Granted I suppose you could do this on off days.