The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

[Chromemage]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

lol @ derailed threads

[ShepardG]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

How many times have you merited in the Jade Sepulcher camp? I've used that camp with both single healer in the back line, and with healer + either BRD/WHM or COR/WHM, and I can tell you the additional /WHM makes a huge difference.

...1,273 times I have merited in Jade sepulcher... oh wait. I HAVE NO IDEA. I do have a maat's cap though, and only 4 jobs that aren't 75.... so dunno what that avg's out too. I would rather have a cor/dd output another 1000 dmg a mob (and yeah it probably avgs out to that, if they WS once a mob, which is completely realistic with a joyeuse) than have them /whm and drop a 300HP cure on a character who has yellow HP...when the RDM can drop a Regen on them and accopmlish near the same thing.

I don't think relying on DNC is a good idea when it comes to Skoffin, based on DNC's position while fighting--in range of AoE.

Closed position is nice, who wouldnt' want +15 acc, but if your at JS camp, your probably eating pizza or sushi, and your gonna have 90%+ acc either way. 5-10% haste is gonna cause all your DD's to be pumping out WS's so quickly that Scoffins are gonna get maybe 2 TP moves off.

While you're at it, why not just take out the RDM and add a SMN--can Hastega and use remaining MP to do MORE DAMAGE! Just let the DNC handle all the cures!

Really...? You sound mad?

Seriously, though, what are the odds that the DNC will be able to get off an Healing Waltz to remove Paralyze while under the (very potent) paralyze effect of Dream Shriek? After he gets his own Paralyze off, the recast is another 15 seconds before he can get another person's paralyze off. (If someone is dying, good luck getting Provoke or Curing Waltz out while paralyzed.)

Define "Very Potent" 80% of the time your going to proc a paralyze on action? 50%? I honestly have never had a problem with this affecting the party enough that I'm even worried about it.
You would rather have your cor/whm sitting back and, I assume, Ranged attacking, and uring/enhancing the party, rather than dealing dmg and enhancing the party?
I mean, what's recast on paralyna? 3 seconds? in 15 seconds everyone in the party that got hit with Dream shriek should be un-paralyzed. I mean....you do still have a rdm/whm right?

Also, Radiant Breath is two debuffs at once (silence and slow II)--how fast can a DNC help out with that 15 (very long) second recast on Healing Waltz? Worse is when it hits more than one person. I like DNCs, but this is not the camp for them.

I completely disagree, I think this is the camp that see's the most benifet of having a dancer in your party. Along with dropping 800-1200 dmg Dancing Edges, they can also erase someone every 15 seconds, 10% to everyone, and lower Defense, acc, and magic evasion, all of which stack with Dia and other De-buffs.

If you want use Skoffin for exp, you want the ability to remove multiple paralyze at once from the back line. The same goes for Silena and Erase.

You are leaning way towards the defensive side of the merit parties. I'd rather catch a death and a raise one and be meriting again in 6 minutes, at full speed than have the Defensive measures in place to prevent the death, but 9/10 times, those defensive measures, go to waste.
Do you see what i'm saying? It's like insurance, yeah i'm glad I have geico incase I get in an accident, but I haven't gotten in an accident in 16 months...but my ass is still paying 200 bucks a month for my vehicles. -.- Do I speed in real life, nah, I don't want to have an accident, because the results of it are expensive, time consuming and tedious. Do I speed in my merit parties, hell yeah, cause If I crash there, the results aren't expensive, they don't cost to much time, and 5 minutes of waiting on weakness allows me to go make a peanutbutter sandwich....and I fucking will kill a man over a peanutbutter sandwich.

While the ever unreliable Seigan/Third Eye may or may not absorb Fang Rush or Rushing Drub/Stab/Slash, it is completely useless for Firespit and single target spells. Pretty much every DD should be /NIN here, unless it's a NIN.

Again, insurance that may or may not get used. I don't mind risking 2k and 7 minutes of down time, to increase my hourly output by 3-5k/hr. And subbing /nin is the same thing. Seigan isn't unreliable, the people using seigan are unreliable. Too many NA's are after that oh so eliete Weapon skill damage that makes everyone go "holy shit", and I'm NA, I love that shit, but i'd rather you do 500 less dmg and have me not have to cure bomb you for 30 seconds while you get the shit beat out of you. Seign/3rd eye should be all you ever need at either camp, aslong as your not jumping on hasso every chance you get.

By the way, Curaga and Divine Waltz? They suck for us BRDs using the Minstrel Ring; I want to stab the healers every time they cast that while I'm in range.

If your bard dosen't have a maxHP down gear set to macro in to activate his/her latent he/she probably dosen't have a 600k minstrel ring anyway. Just saying, if your droping almost a mil on a single piece of gear, your probably serious about bard, and hopefully you've gotten a couple pieces of zenith, maybe a serket ring, or ether to activate your latent without outside assitance.

* * *

but, whatever. Come June, COR/WHM will the be new standard, thanks to Haste. (Maybe. lol.)

Now this ...is a serious thing to ponder, which makes me happy, because there are so many new job combos about to open up with the addition of 5 more levels let alone 19 more!! ^^

When you already have a BRD and a DNC, why bother with a cure-bot/haste-bot RDM when the COR/WHM can do the job? After all, we're not looking to RDM to debuff anything anymore besides Dispel, and a COR can do that!

See im my ideal setup, RDM is the only insurance. It's to self efficent a job to pass up when it comes to seting up a party of efficent jobs.

What about Dia III? Well, so what's so special about it? Pffft. Hi to you, Dia II + Light Shot!

This is doable, heck you could do this now, and save a shit ton of MP over the course of an hour, at the cost of 3k worth of light cards. along with dancers Box Step, that's a huge chunk of defense that's just gone, with minimal effort.

[Zoltar]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

BTW, great meripos on birds don't need a whm OR a rdm, only 3 drg/whm + dd, brd + brd or cor, wyverns do ALL the healing, works awesome...parser showed 28-32k/hour consistently!

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll and will completely decimate any exp you'll get on skoffin even tossing the odd wivre bridging kill in. You're honestly trying to say that the extra 20 seconds would be wasted anyway if there were mobs still available to be killed?

There's a reason there's only one single area in the entire game that can support the super max chain, tippy top 30+ exp per hour TP burn party. If you kill too fast you'll run out of mobs to pull, which is why this can only happen when no other parties are in the area. It's why people have to kill Wivres and Wyverns to keep chains. If you kill too slow you miss the window and lose the chain, if you kill too fast (and it is possible) you clear the area and lose the chain. So no, that extra 20 seconds doesn't really matter all too much.

Last I counted there were two one shot moves a wyvern possesses and they're both more than capable of dropping a person in 30 seconds.

It's more like one move, and they'll at most use it once before they're killed.

Dispelling Wind removes two beneficial effects including food. In 30 seconds it's more than possible for a wyvern to pop it off twice which means unless your healer is doing shuttle runs back and forth each pull you won't always have Pro/Shell up to absorb the effect.

Dispelling Wind doesn't remove food unless it was changed in the last update or something. Very few dispel moves actually do remove food, which is what makes Morsel Grab so special. Also, your mobs use two WS in less then 30 seconds? Are you all DWing Merc Krises and Kclubs or something?

You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.

Err, Whm and Sch can heal the entire party of Paralysis in one casting and Wind Wall has a minor effect if your party is already capped out on Acc against Colibri (who are naturally more evasive then Wyverns iirc)

Look, I appreciate you backed yourself into a corner here trying to argue that wyverns are decent exp mobs but now's the time to graciously walk away.

Except they are when you're not scared of things that aren't little pink birds. I was ripping through them when I was level 74 in a TP burn party at the Mamool camp between killing Puks(who can also use Evasion and Blink moves) and Mamools (who have their own myriad of buffs and dangerous attacks). It wasn't 30k an hour, but it was still decent Exp. And the Mamool camp is one of the more popular leveling areas despite being filled with Wyverns. Which is the point you seem to be ignoring, people kill Wyverns in EXP parties.

Once again, all you care about is the absolute max exp per hour(well, second best), but I'm talking about the current average, good, reliable, decent exp. Unless SE adds nothing but tiny pink birds 75+ to level on, this is the kind of exp you will have to go after once the cap increases. Because even level sync won't let you kill Colibiri for long at 75. It's nice you have constant access to perfect set ups and empty camps at all times, but the exception does not make the rule. The vast majority of the playerbase often times has to go to other camps(shocking, I know!) and use less then optimal set-ups, but can still pull out 10-20k an hour. And chances are, once the cap is boosted, we'll be seeing more of these types of parties unless the new mobs SE adds are pathetically weak, have fast repops and are all over the place, or SE decides (and I hope they do) to overhaul the entire leveling system to make the climb to 99 easier on everyone.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

If it's not measured, it's a guesstimate--you made up the number.

I'd have hoped by now you'd have learned to count to ten unassisted.

If you have lots of friends with incredibly well gear/merited jobs, I guess you can always build the better party.

I do fortunately and due to the declining parties on Fenrir have pretty much uncontested access to both bird camps. As for the JP comment, all I can say is NA's on Ifrit must truly suck.

*shrug* With only a single cure source, a bit of bad luck with a few Pecking Flurry in a row is already a huge dent. The price of configuring a party to be as offensive as possible is that it has a thin line for recovery.

Higher exp potential--until someone goes down, or the party wipes.

Oh not this same old shit again. If you want subpar exp you take the 100% safe and preferred Japanese option (hi Cor/Whm) and gimp your party. Those of us who see meriting as a chore and who don't completely suck will continue to shred colibri with an optimal setup and increased exp gain.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

NO!

....waste of 10% dmg output easily. /war,/nin,/drg, /rng anything blut /whm even on scoffin

How many times have you merited in the Jade Sepulcher camp? I've used that camp with both single healer in the back line, and with healer + either BRD/WHM or COR/WHM, and I can tell you the additional /WHM makes a huge difference.

I don't think relying on DNC is a good idea when it comes to Skoffin, based on DNC's position while fighting--in range of AoE.

My ideal party, and one you rarely see because well most 75 Dnc's would rather campaign...

RDM/WHM
BRD/NIN
COR/DRG (assuming earring) /war otherwise
DNC/NIN
SAM/WAR
SAM/WAR OR WAR/SAM

This has:
15% haste spell from rdm
18-22% Haste from Marchx2
5-10% Haste from samba
Acc/Atk from Rolls
3 Forms of Provoke
2 forms of healing (one instant) as well as 2 forms of -ga Cure's
and 2-3 forms of Defense Down and or Evasion down

While you're at it, why not just take out the RDM and add a SMN--can Hastega and use remaining MP to do MORE DAMAGE! Just let the DNC handle all the cures!

Seriously, though, what are the odds that the DNC will be able to get off an Healing Waltz to remove Paralyze while under the (very potent) paralyze effect of Dream Shriek? After he gets his own Paralyze off, the recast is another 15 seconds before he can get another person's paralyze off. (If someone is dying, good luck getting Provoke or Curing Waltz out while paralyzed.)

Also, Radiant Breath is two debuffs at once (silence and slow II)--how fast can a DNC help out with that 15 (very long) second recast on Healing Waltz? Worse is when it hits more than one person. I like DNCs, but this is not the camp for them.

If you want use Skoffin for exp, you want the ability to remove multiple paralyze at once from the back line. The same goes for Silena and Erase.

While the ever unreliable Seigan/Third Eye may or may not absorb Fang Rush or Rushing Drub/Stab/Slash, it is completely useless for Firespit and single target spells. Pretty much every DD should be /NIN here, unless it's a NIN.

By the way, Curaga and Divine Waltz? They suck for us BRDs using the Minstrel Ring; I want to stab the healers every time they cast that while I'm in range.


* * *

But, whatever. Come June, COR/WHM will the be new standard, thanks to Haste. (Maybe. lol.)

When you already have a BRD and a DNC, why bother with a cure-bot/haste-bot RDM when the COR/WHM can do the job? After all, we're not looking to RDM to debuff anything anymore besides Dispel, and a COR can do that!

What about Dia III? Well, so what's so special about it? Pffft. Hi to you, Dia II + Light Shot!

[ShepardG]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

COR/WHM

NO!

....waste of 10% dmg output easily. /war,/nin,/drg, /rng anything blut /whm even on scoffin

My ideal party, and one you rarely see because well most 75 Dnc's would rather campaign...

RDM/WHM
BRD/NIN
COR/DRG (assuming earring) /war otherwise
DNC/NIN
SAM/WAR
SAM/WAR OR WAR/SAM

This has:
15% haste spell from rdm
18-22% Haste from Marchx2
5-10% Haste from samba
Acc/Atk from Rolls
3 Forms of Provoke
2 forms of healing (one instant) as well as 2 forms of -ga Cure's
and 2-3 forms of Defense Down and or Evasion down

If your at birds, you'll probably be killing wivre's
If your at mammols you'll probably be killing everything ^^

This is so funnie too because hell, SE might have gotten a hair up their arse and plan on bringing back the Whm,Blm,brd or rdm, pld, 2 dd partie idea. Who knows. Those were the days for sure ^^

Funnie thing, My LS is going through a great debate internally as to how our schedule is going to run, etc. We stay pretty busy during primetime aswell as camp 4-5 HNMs and with all the new content, and all the experience points that people need to get to 80, convo's like this about merit eficency come up almost daily. I keep trying to tell the sack holders, we USED to be an endgame Linkshell, but the game go about 30 percent longer till players get to "the end".

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

I don't run a parser, only Expwatch. The 10 second claim is made not just by myself but many other players, it's not some wild and fantastic exaggeration. Maybe you don't see that killspeed but ask around and you'll find others do.

If it's not measured, it's a guesstimate--you made up the number.

That's great and all but I wouldn't touch a JP merit party with a shitty stick because quite simply they give subpar exp. I can count on one hand the number of times I've meritted with either a WHM or a BRD/WHM in the last six months.

lol. I prefer WHM over RDM when meriting on Colibri. Thanks to Esuna, a party with strong DDs can keep chain on back-to-back Wivre if it runs out of birds.

If you have lots of friends with incredibly well gear/merited jobs, I guess you can always build the better party. However, as I am someone who's been parsing a lot of merit parties, and the majority of them pickup parties--and careful about determining base exp by taking out the effect of exp rings--I can state this with confidence: The average pickup JP merit parties on Ifrit blow away the average pickup NA groups in terms of exp/hour.

Not every NA party is bad, not every JP party is great, YMMV, and etc. all apply.

Invariably my parties consist of RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, COR/WAR, x3 DD. All those extra dispels, erases, and rebuffing put a huge dent in one mages MP.

*shrug* With only a single cure source, a bit of bad luck with a few Pecking Flurry in a row is already a huge dent. The price of configuring a party to be as offensive as possible is that it has a thin line for recovery.

Higher exp potential--until someone goes down, or the party wipes.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Show parser results, please, or else I'm going to think you're making up numbers.

I don't run a parser, only Expwatch. The 10 second claim is made not just by myself but many other players, it's not some wild and fantastic exaggeration. Maybe you don't see that killspeed but ask around and you'll find others do.

The standard (JP) Jade Sepulcher party options here on Ifrit:

That's great and all but I wouldn't touch a JP merit party with a shitty stick because quite simply they give subpar exp. I can count on one hand the number of times I've meritted with either a WHM or a BRD/WHM in the last six months. Invariably my parties consist of RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, COR/WAR, x3 DD. All those extra dispels, erases, and rebuffing put a huge dent in one mages MP.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll

Show parser results, please, or else I'm going to think you're making up numbers.

You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.

The standard (JP) Jade Sepulcher party options here on Ifrit:
1. RDM/WHM (or WHM), COR/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3
2. RDM/WHM (or WHM), BRD/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3
3. WHM, RDM/WHM, BRD/NIN, DD x3

Dread Shriek is not much of a problem with two sources of Paralyna. Neither is Dispelling Wind, really, for any of the three setups. Fang Rush is the major pain.

Fang Rush is the big cousin of Pecking Flurry, basically. Then again, the Skoffins are not the chain breakers--the Mamool Ja Lurker is. I give Madrigal for those, and hope the DDs have an Acc set for them. lol.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Kill too fast and you clear the area and break the chain(it's why Cor roll can be more useful then DD related rolls), so that extra 20 seconds has no importance unless your puller sucks.

What kind of topsy turvy logic is that? I typically kill colibri in 10 seconds while using Cor Roll and will completely decimate any exp you'll get on skoffin even tossing the odd wivre bridging kill in. You're honestly trying to say that the extra 20 seconds would be wasted anyway if there were mobs still available to be killed?

Also, the one WS a Wyvern can do in the 30 seconds it's alive won't one shot anyone.

Last I counted there were two one shot moves a wyvern possesses and they're both more than capable of dropping a person in 30 seconds.

Also, complaining about losing food...when compared to fighting Colibri? Really?

There's a difference between one person losing food/buffs and every person without 10' of the mob losing food/buffs. I would have thought that'd be fairly obvious.

Edit: Dispelling wind doesn't even remove food effects, it just removes up to two stat bonuses on players (pro and shell). Nihility Song can remove food effects, but that's only if it's the last effect you have on as it only removes one effect per player.

Dispelling Wind removes two beneficial effects including food. In 30 seconds it's more than possible for a wyvern to pop it off twice which means unless your healer is doing shuttle runs back and forth each pull you won't always have Pro/Shell up to absorb the effect.

You also conveniently glossed over the fact Dread Shriek is an absolute cunt of a debuff and when coupled with all the other shit wyverns can toss out it puts a considerable burden on your healer's MP compared to a colibri. Lets also not forget the impact Wind Wall can have on killing speed if you don't have a dispeller in the party.

Look, I appreciate you backed yourself into a corner here trying to argue that wyverns are decent exp mobs but now's the time to graciously walk away.

[Ziero]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

That's 20 seconds longer than it takes to kill a colibri with significantly less chance of death and everyone near the mob losing all their buffs, including food, repeatedly.

Kill too fast and you clear the area and break the chain(it's why Cor roll can be more useful then DD related rolls), so that extra 20 seconds has no importance unless your puller sucks. Also, the one WS a Wyvern can do in the 30 seconds it's alive won't one shot anyone.

Also, complaining about losing food...when compared to fighting Colibri? Really?

Edit: Dispelling wind doesn't even remove food effects, it just removes up to two stat bonuses on players (pro and shell). Nihility Song can remove food effects, but that's only if it's the last effect you have on as it only removes one effect per player.

Point is it's beyond stupid to insinuate that because parties will kill one as a last resort to avoid losing the chain when they run out of birds, they're EXP'ing off of wyverns, or that because they can be killed in 30 seconds a party would do just as well against them as they would against birds.

If two parties set out to EXP and one killed exclusively birds and the other exclusively wyverns, the bird party will consistently do better.

Mamool camp doesn't even have birds, people exp off the Puks and Mamools there and pull the Wyverns for chains. If you're talking exclusives of course an all colibri camp would be ideal, but I never said exclusively kill Wyverns (though people have tried against the Ajattaras in Grau with decent results iirc), I said uncapped CoP zones, including the ones with Wyverns, could be potential 75+ leveling spots.

And again, when talking absolutely bestest exp pts, a fully function Astral Burn will double a completely open, perfect pull Mamool point Colibri party. But we're not debating absolute bestest ever possible situations, we're talking about good, decent EXP options, 10-20k an hour places. Which CoP zones could be turned into, amongst other places with some mob rearranging and re-leveling.

It's a shame what little pink birds did to the game, but then again people have always found that one perfect, ideal camping spot and compared it to the average spots with disdain so this isn't really anything new.

[Zoltar]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Did anyone say if there will be new Dynamis zones?

[Elwynn]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Hmmm...

Furthermore, users must have installed and registered FINAL FANTASY XI, PlayOnline, and the "Rise of the Zilart" and "Wings of the Goddess" expansions in order to play "Vision of Abyssea".

Doesn't MMM require WoTG too? They're probably using the same instancing stuff.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: The next FFXI update (May20th I think?)

Where the heck are you getting "Shards" from?

I have no idea.