Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

[Legal Fish]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

I fail to see how.

Read it again.

[Liquidedust]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

I fail to see how.

If it wasn't possible to have more inventory before and we have it now, then it WAS possible for us to have more inventory. That's not a PS2 limitation, its a server limitation because that is where all the data is held.

That data is not held on PS2, Xbox360 or your PC - its on the server, hence its a server limitation. These platforms are little more than a portal that allow you to access the game. Everything save for your macros is held on the server side, not the client side.

You're uninformed how programming works in that case.

For the longest time in interview S-E did say it weren't possible to give us more inventory space or mog safe space due to the internal memory of the PS2 (cannot direct you towards the exact quotes but you can do some google searches on the matter you'll find those old interviews).

Then when ToAU came with mog lockers all the players just screamed lies etc. and there were no such thing as a PS2 limitation since we got new space.

This really isn't anything more then a memory flush trick since the game never displays more information then there is in 140 slots (since you technically just flush the memory and replace the data from the safe with the locker with the storage etc.)

So still we got new space but the memory in this case is still limited to only 140 slots max which makes it seem we have more active inventory when we actually just got more seperate sets of data which can be removed and inserted from memory when we need it.

See it as a box which can hold 140 pieces of paper worth of information.

When you load the mog safe you fill up 80 of those paper spaces with pieces of paper that describe the mog safe contents. When you close and open your mog locker the pieces of paper for you safe is removed and instead we put in the 70 pieces of paper that describe your mog locker. And then again we close the locker and open the storage and in which we remove the pieces of paper that describe the locker and instead put in the papers that describe the storage space you have.

This is essentially how internal memory works and which why Legal Fish tells you you're wrong. The playstation also has 32 MB worth of RAM and 4 MB worth of VRAM (but the GPU can also borrow RAM into VRAM if it needs) and 32 MB is a very limited amount of RAM to process something like a MMO with.

When the architecture of the PS2 can borrow from the RAM into the VRAM you become even more limited and have to prepare for the worst-case scenario which leaves you with much less then 32 MB to work it (which is a very small amount to start with).

[Taermus]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

SE's next MMORPG will be much improved because of what they've learned from architecture, gameplay, memory and other issues, I'm sure. I honestly have more anticipation of that than the next FFXI expansion.

Sadly, I feel many people won't give it much of a chance because of experiences in the current game.

[Malacite]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

What the above posters said >-> I didn't do very well in programming but I do understand the limitations of memory. It's a shame SE won't do any kind of overhaul for at least the PC users just because "it wouldn't be fair" but oh well.

Well, the real reason for it is (this is from SE) that they'd have to hire a new team and basically rebuild the game from scratch. SE has said they would rather take all that time, money and effort and put it into a new game, which is exactly what they're doing. Still, it's a pitty; Vana'diel is by far and above SE's best work. Ever. At leas to me, and it's too bad that it's creators were unable to realise their original vision "due to technological limitations at the time"


You can't tell me you wouldn't want to see this game running in full 1080p with re-worked visuals and living environments...

[Raydeus]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Reworking the graphics, models, textures and others is very unlikely.

They would have to change each and every model used by the game, so it would be way easier to simply make a new game instead around the PC and PS3 platforms.


An engine upgrade wouldn't require any changes to existing models, it would only change the way the XI emulates the PS2 taking advantage of the many graphic aceleration options aviable in newer video cards (and releaving the CPU from all the unnecessary work it has to do because of the dated emulation engine).

In other words upgrading the engine wont displace the PS2 in any way, it would only change the way your PC (or PS3 and 360) client emulates the PS2 to run the game. It would still use the same old models but textures and effects would be handled in a more effective way, AA could be enabled and drawing distance could be increased by a lot.

The game wouldn't get the huge frame rate hit it has when too many characters are on screen at the same time, and even using the same models because of the better way it would handle textures and effects the game would look much better without requiring high res textures to be added to every model.

They could even allow true-form so the videocard could scalate the number of polys (making the characters look better) without having to change the models themselves.

It's an engine upgrade what I'm hoping for since it isn't that difficult to pull off and they wouldn't have anything but change the emulation clientside, the rest of the game would remain the same, that includes the PS2 version support.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

You're uninformed how programming works in that case.

For the longest time in interview S-E did say it weren't possible to give us more inventory space or mog safe space due to the internal memory of the PS2 (cannot direct you towards the exact quotes but you can do some google searches on the matter you'll find those old interviews).

Then when ToAU came with mog lockers all the players just screamed lies etc. and there were no such thing as a PS2 limitation since we got new space.

This really isn't anything more then a memory flush trick since the game never displays more information then there is in 140 slots (since you technically just flush the memory and replace the data from the safe with the locker with the storage etc.)

So still we got new space but the memory in this case is still limited to only 140 slots max which makes it seem we have more active inventory when we actually just got more seperate sets of data which can be removed and inserted from memory when we need it.

See it as a box which can hold 140 pieces of paper worth of information.

When you load the mog safe you fill up 80 of those paper spaces with pieces of paper that describe the mog safe contents. When you close and open your mog locker the pieces of paper for you safe is removed and instead we put in the 70 pieces of paper that describe your mog locker. And then again we close the locker and open the storage and in which we remove the pieces of paper that describe the locker and instead put in the papers that describe the storage space you have.

This is essentially how internal memory works and which why Legal Fish tells you you're wrong. The playstation also has 32 MB worth of RAM and 4 MB worth of VRAM (but the GPU can also borrow RAM into VRAM if it needs) and 32 MB is a very limited amount of RAM to process something like a MMO with.

When the architecture of the PS2 can borrow from the RAM into the VRAM you become even more limited and have to prepare for the worst-case scenario which leaves you with much less then 32 MB to work it (which is a very small amount to start with).

Well, thanks for explaining it. Nice to know some people can post something informative instead of being a troll. Take notes, Legal Fish, but thank you for your non-answer.

Still, even with the "flushes" you refer to, they only take place because SE added new servers within our existing "servers" when they added ToA. When you change zones, you essentially switch to another server. The MH of the original release and the expansions became linked to the new ToA servers that could retain this data - that's where its loaded in from. We're given the option to link this data to our other mog houses or not, so another server must be accessed if we choose for the option for it to link to our other MHs

That being the case, its not purely a limitation of the PS2, only by technicality. If they add another server, more inventory would be alloted. SE could give us Mog Safe II and Mog Locker II when they add new servers.

And its not like adding RAM to your PC would change the max inventory for every user in an MMO. It would be capped at an average for all users. As I said before about WoW, they skew the specs to the widest range of PC setups as they can. One of those is going to be lower end and technically "hold back" the users with high-end setups. So whatever max inventory there is, its going to be the same for all users there.

[Icemage]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

The limitations of the PS2 are in how many objects the game engine can handle at a time. The Mog House functions are indeed housed on a separate server, but until and unless S-E drops support for the PS2 version, we most likely will not see a Mog Safe II that will be acessible via Nomad Moogles. Storage and Mog Locker aren't as bad since you're always inside your Mog House when accessing them, but adding more inventory for the Safe is not possible under the current PS2 architecture (this is why we have workarounds like Storage and Mog Locker in the first place).


Icemage

[Legal Fish]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Well, thanks for explaining it. Nice to know some people can post something informative instead of being a troll. Take notes, Legal Fish, but thank you for your non-answer.

Sorry I thought I was on the internet, not school. People tend to not speak out of their league, and it should stay that way. Try not doing it again or you'll make a poor argument again.

[Malacite]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Basically what iceman said >.>

SE *would* have given us more gobbie bag quests and such IF the PS2 could handle it, but sadly it can't. As to why they haven't added nomad moogles to Selbina and Mhaura yet, well that's beyond my understanding >-> (stables would be nice too....)
Off topic I know, but still.


I really like the idea of an engine upgrade though. At the very least it Besieged would become much more bearable if the load on the CPU was lessened and placed more on the GPU. That's what it's there for after all...


Although to be fair, you can still do something like besieged and view the entire contents of your inventory/mogsafe at the same time, and yet they can't increase the safe size while inside an environment such as your mog house.... unless it's an issue with how the memory is divided up, then I don't get it.

[Icemage]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

I'm not an expert on it, but my understanding is that it's not an issue of number of objects; that could go higher with no problem. The issue is really that the PS2 has very limited texture memory, and all those items need an icon to go with them, which in turn eats up texture memory. Because Square-Enix has set a strict budget with the available memory on the PS2, and increasing the size of inventory or mog safe would exceed that limit.


Icemage

[little ninja]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

I thought this was already talked about. Not sure but i thought it was said this was its last expansion, But we would still se content updates.

Will i play another S.E MMO. Im nto sure, i do know that if its based in some ways like this one was. Then you Will Not see me.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

I thought this was already talked about. Not sure but i thought it was said this was its last expansion, But we would still se content updates.

Will i play another S.E MMO. Im nto sure, i do know that if its based in some ways like this one was. Then you Will Not see me.

Have you quit yet?

[little ninja]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Have you quit yet?

Nope, I did retire my Ninja. So i just play Bst now.

[Sabaron]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Do you really want all the PS2 people to just vanish one day? I don't think SE does, either. As for the inventory space, I don't see it as any huge issue. Your character already carrys around probably 20 times more than any person ever could or would in a fanny pack the size of a PSP (staves, multiple suits of armor, countless changes of underwear, bottles of altana-knows-what, etc.).... Basically, I think you (as in Average Joe FFXI who wants more space) just want SE to give you a practically limitless accessible inventory so you can carry around gear for all caps and any purpose under the sun you can think of... stacks upon stacks of consumables and whatever crap you want to show of in your 99,999,999gil bazaar. The amount of inventory we have now is already unrealistic, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that SE's got a 10-slot (to 80) expansion for Mog Locker they're holding back.

[Murphie]

Re: Do You Think there will be another Expansion for FFXI? If so...

Yes, I'd be perfectly content if all the PS2 people vanished. I mean, from the game. I have no opinion with regard to real life.

Other MMOs allow much larger item storage for characters (in EQ2, I had six 36 slot bags), regardless of "realism", and it seems to work out just fine. Anyone who has more than one game at or near endgame is keenly aware of how handy more inventory space would be. Currently we make do, but we shouldn't have to.