[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

What a pile of horsecrap.

RoZ completion? OK, that's reasonable.
CoP8-3? Absolutely retarded.

Yeah, Tu'Lia and Al'Teieu are Zilart ruins connected by the stories of both RoZ and CoP, but it really doesn't make much sense to require CoP progression to warp to a RoZ area, especially when you have essentially obseleted both sky and Limbus with Salvage. They could just made it an outpost warp, as the area is under Conquest anyway.

All that work for a place no one is going to want to go to anymore for anything outside of maybe Divine Might or EXP now? Really, this doesn't make much sense.

[Karinya]

Um... I don't think nobody is going to want to go there anymore. It might become SLIGHTLY less crowded, but I doubt it. As soon as one LS stops going two more will start because they think they have a chance at getting Ulli now. Especially when it isn't even as much of a pain in the ass to get to anymore.

Sky will not be killed by sea, limbus, assault or salvage; the only thing really threatening it is Ulli monopolization.

P.S. Salvage gear isn't *that* great. It's about on par with abj and homam/nashira - some pieces better, some pieces not as good. (Except for tanking, because there is no tanking gear from Salvage.) It certainly isn't going to make those other things obsolete. SE is not Blizzard.

[Caspian]

Originally Posted by Karinya

Um... I don't think nobody is going to want to go there anymore. It might become SLIGHTLY less crowded, but I doubt it. As soon as one LS stops going two more will start because they think they have a chance at getting Ulli now. Especially when it isn't even as much of a pain in the ass to get to anymore.
Sky will not be killed by sea, limbus, assault or salvage; the only thing really threatening it is Ulli monopolization.
P.S. Salvage gear isn't *that* great. It's about on par with abj and homam/nashira - some pieces better, some pieces not as good. (Except for tanking, because there is no tanking gear from Salvage.) It certainly isn't going to make those other things obsolete. SE is not Blizzard.

Exactly, a lot of the new gear is better than some of the previously used god gear and abjuration gear, but a good majority of it is either not quite as good, or only situationally better. I think we're definately getting ahead of ourselves by saying that Sky, Limbus, and Dynamis are dead and noone will ever go there again. Several abjurations and god gear pieces are still the best that exist for certain situations. Limbus has lots of accessories that don't even have counterparts in salvage. (Gorgets, torques, earrings, etc.) Dynamis still is the only place to get items for upgrading relic weapons, and many relic pieces are great for certain situations.
I'm not discounting many of the salvage pieces at all, they're great. But it seems like they're all great for certain situations and not as great for others. It seems like more and more that SE wants us to constantly be macroing in and out of different equipment to maximize our work output.
As far as having to be done with CoP to use the teleport...doesn't surprise me. People have been running to Sky since its inception, why should they suddenly up and make it incredibly easy for everyone to make it there with little work at all. I don't see why SE is getting bitched at by adding something to make people's lives a little easier, when people had been living with it for years, b/c its not immediately available to everyone.

[eticket109]

not only that but it looks like the new sets will take a long time to accumulate. some of them have a significant financial hurdle to clear, let alone collecting the salvage drops.

[Caspian]

Originally Posted by eticket109

not only that but it looks like the new sets will take a long time to accumulate. some of them have a significant financial hurdle to clear, let alone collecting the salvage drops.

Very true, at current prices for the body pieces, you're looking at about 4-5 million, and thats not taking into account the unavoidable super price hike on all the craftables required.

[Shirai]

It's derailing a bit but let's take a look.

Collecting Abjurations takes time as well, in most endgame shells you'll be in a waiting line and/or need to have enough points gathered to bid on them.
After that hope it drops, not all cursed gear but a lot of it are considerably just as or more expensive to get then the salvage items are.
On HNM it's not only the question if it drops but also if you get the claim on it.

I agree about the craftables, there's gonna be a huge run on those and but I'm not too sure about the prices.
A lot of gil has been taken out of the economy and many people don't have that much gil anymore to spend let alone afford a stack of the more expensive pieces. (for example the headgear (12 Orichalum Ignots SP)).

A lot of this gear is as good or maybe even better as the Abjuration gear, sure it takes some investments but honestly everything does that will take you through the entire ffxi career.
If it's not gil it's time, or both.

[Caspian]

Oh, no doubt that many of the cursed pieces are highly expensive, in some cases moreso than the new Salvage pieces. What I'm mainly in disagreement about with a few people is that I really can't foresee Sky, Limbus, and Dynamis suddenly becoming pointless and unused. These new pieces of equipment do have their places and in a few cases could theoretically replace other previously popular gear, but I just don't see people up and deciding everything from RoZ and CoP as being total crap. People who have every job leveled and have all the currently available gear will surely be spending the majority of their time in Salvage, but there are still plenty of new 75's and old 75's with new jobs who are working on their equipment and need some of these pieces still. Like I said, a lot of these new pieces are fantastic, but most are situational and there are many situations where the old pieces are still preferred. For instance, no leg pieces give the 5% Haste that Byakko's Haidate give.
Do I think this will lighten the load of people typically seen before a King pop, or camping Ulli or some other HNM's? Most certainly, but it doesn't mean the pieces those mobs drop are suddenly useless.

EDIT: Followup:
The superHNMLS's that have been around for a few years and have fully decked out members in god gear, many of them still camped Kings and did god runs in sky. There's money to be made in these things, good money that benefits the ls. From what it sounds like Salvage isn't really profitable in the gil market, ls's will still most likely use the older stuff to continue bringing in the money.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Caspian

EDIT: Followup:
The superHNMLS's that have been around for a few years and have fully decked out members in god gear, many of them still camped Kings and did god runs in sky. There's money to be made in these things, good money that benefits the ls. From what it sounds like Salvage isn't really profitable in the gil market, ls's will still most likely use the older stuff to continue bringing in the money.

I'd like to clarify what seems to be a misconception about end-game linkshells amongst those who aren't in one.

HNMLS, even the best ones, are always cycling in new members. People quit, leave, or just stop playing, and so even the best linkshells are always willing to take a look at good new member candidates. For newcomers, yes, they're generally low on the totem pole, but it gives the entire LS a reason to go camping HNMs even though the majority of membership may have what they already need.

I know of few, if any, HNMLS that camps the Big 3 or does stuff like Kirin, etc. simply for money. Sure, you accumulate "some" money from such activities, but the majority of the resources in a lot of HNMLS are retained by the membership, not sold on the open market. Considering that such activities requires the time and dedication of many players, it's not really that much of a stretch.

By and large, the HNMLS I belong to uses the proceeds from random item sales from camps to fuel things like paying for Dynamis fees (1 million gil), Limbus attempts (our LS pays for 50% of the entrance fee, so around a half million per attempt if you get a full 18), and so forth. Even so, we don't go after things just because they are expensive, and I imagine a lot of HNMLS playing at this level have similar attitudes - they're much more interested in the unique experiences and gears that can be acquired rather than straight money (which isn't hard to get once you're at 75, HNMLS member or not).


Icemage

[Jei]

My HNMLS don't do HNM for money. We cycle different place to prevent members from getting burn out too.

The older camps and HNM are not fun tho...

I hate ulli for the amount of GS camping it.

I hate faf/aspi/behe camp for the amount of people clogging the area. They will all gather around you, making the lag extremely hard to deal with. And will take every opportunity to cure and get hate from you if you happen to not have /blockaid on. It's frustrating, boring and stupid.

Salvage sounds like a nice escape. And a great alternative. Now in addition to merit, the new gears give more reason to focus on our level 75 job more than levelling up multiple jobs.

This will hurt low level people finding parties even more I suppose. But for me, I think I will have fun with Salvage. And I'm sooooo ready to say goodbye to ground HNM and sky. Those suck. Big time.

[Caspian]

I understand that you're fairly constantly bringing in new members who need gear and such, but you don't ever do Genbu for extra gil?
Most HNMLS's on Fairy have an ls bank, and use the money to pay for things like Dynamis and Limbus, like you said, and also help pay for craftable gear. (Friend got a Noble's tunic from his ls, b/c the ls payed for part of it.)

[Legal Fish]

So you need completion or so of RoZ and CoP?

I told you so.

[Jei]

You need sky access to reach the green portal.
You need to pass CoP 8-3 for the title.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Exactly, a lot of the new gear is better than some of the previously used god gear and abjuration gear, but a good majority of it is either not quite as good, or only situationally better. I think we're definately getting ahead of ourselves by saying that Sky, Limbus, and Dynamis are dead and noone will ever go there again.

I don't think that's getting ahead of ourselves. Let's face it, sky gear itself is only good for but a handful of jobs. For example, aside from Homam set (also a lot of work), Ares's set is really the only good bone SE ever threw DRG.

Salvage gear has something good for every one. We can use mincing words like "situational." I personally can't find one piece in Skadi's that I as a COR or RNG would call "situational" - its a good catch-all set. 2 less STR than osode, but that can easily be made up an accessory slot.

And seriously, just how many of you find camping that 3 hour window every day to be fun? I know I just love all the inane NA shouting, seeing RMT claim every time and then having to deal with other "legit" HNM causing drama or ltrying to lag my LS out. How many think competing against RMT in sky is fun? How many enjoy planning around each and every LS that wants to do Dynamis or Limbus?

I don't think any one does.

I'm sure there will be those that still want sky gear or Dynamis, but I think the interest is going to decline rather steeply when you can conjure up 2000 Assault points every other day and just go Salvage every other day rather than wait three days.

As a COR, RNG, BST and future SAM - I see very little in sky, limbus or Dynamis for me now. I don't think there's going to be a COR AFv2, just look at what COF AF1 is, it addresses a lot of COR's needs and so do Assault, Salvage and Barbossa pieces. Osode would be nice for RNG, BST and SAM, but its no longer that nice. Skadi's is not too great for BST, but awesome for RNG and COR. BST CoP JSE still best overall, but picks up some nice things from Skadi. I could see my self doing Dynamis, but only for BST, nothing there for me otherwise.

The rest I could see myself going for accessories from sky or limbus (like earrings, quested rings/earrings), but thats about it.

At the end of the day, Salvage is a very compelling alternative to endgame and to say it won't affect sky, sea, limbus and dynamis would be nothing short of silly. Its vastly more accessable.

But this is all derail, I apologize.

I still think CoP 8-3 requirement is beyond stupid. >.>

[Caspian]

Well, as far as salvage gear goes, a lot of it is nice, several pieces are very nice. As far as rng w/ the skadi set goes, there are a couple pieces that are good for tp build and a piece or two for ws'ing. None of the pieces make for good TP'ing with Obow (+MND?) other than the store tp +7 legs (combined with rajas ring for one less shot for 100tp). This will probably relieve some of the stress on Sky and King areas, but there are still jobs with valuable pieces in these places. I also don't see how this kills Limbus, upgrading af and relic gear, some pieces give bonuses you can't get anywhere else, and for accessories which at this point aren't dropped at all in Salvage. But whatever, we disagree and only time will tell whats for sure gonna happen on the continent Quon (nomatter what opininon you have it seems SE really doesn't like that continent anymore.)

About using Halls of Transference to get to sky. How is needing CoP 8-3 retarded? Its a reward for doing something quite difficult. Yes, you need to be done or be nearly done with RoZ for it, but as far as storyline goes, you need to have an understanding of what's been happening and how the Halls of Transference are part of Zilart and the Emptiness. SE decides to make getting somewhere easier and then we bitch that the requirements are too hard? I know many people who meet all the requirements.
If you don't want to do all of CoP then raise a chocobo and use the outpost in Zitah.

[Seraph-H]

derail a bit longer. Concerning the new pieces, I was looking at Mysterytour...and I checked out some of the new equipment....and I scrolled further...and it said something about "necessity equip x3/ after equip" (not sure what that means) but the thing that caught my interest most is "charge" and "necessity". Under "charge, depending on which piece, the requirement changes from ingots to lumber, to cloths, to leather items. Under "necessity" is from what I see all Imp. Gold Piece x10!~

I was just wondering if anyone knew what these meant....or does it simply mean nothing.

As for the requirements...I don't entirely think its unreasonable. People just make a lot of fuss out of CoP missions...when they really aren't all that hard. Just takes some preperation for each battle and some time. Find some good friends/ trusted LS members, and make a static (can be more than 6 ppl), and you'll be done before you know it. Just be ready to spend a bit of gil, and expect to die. Talk about why you fail if you did, and try to come up with better strategies or work on mistakes. If you do this, CoP is not hard at all, and very enjoyable. (You don't need to finish CoP in all of 5 days....take your time, enjoy it)