How long do you give a person... - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

TheGrandMom · 10-28-2007, 09:51 PM

Ok, I'm having an issue. In a nut shell, I think I've upset people with my opinion on a whm in our HNM. It makes me doubt myself and I keep wondering if I'm wrong. So have at it and tell me what you think.

Heres the background......We have a new recruit that is a whm. After several events, I can't say that I support this person's attitude. At events I've watched his performance and talked with our "head" whm. He is't very happy with his performance either. (FYI, my whm is also 75.)

While I realize joining a HNM is intimidating and you need to learn a lot over time, I think the basic job of a whm is to cure. Am I right? If you have leveled a job for 75 levels and you can't even cure people in a decent timeframe at an event, doesn't that seem odd? Let's take a Limbus run. There were 14 people approx., one whm (him), 2 rdms, 2 blms (I was in this group), and assorted melee and tanks. (I believe this is fairly accurate.) During the entire run his mp didn't dip below 800 and his max is approx. 940ish. I wasn't able to perform my duties correctly for the entire run since I was erasing, paralynaing, curing, etc. (Thank goodness I subbed whm which I usually don't.) I would watch his mp and he'd have 850 and be resting or just standing there doing nothing. At the same time, the melee/tanks would have a few in the red. This went on through the entire event and at the end after killing off an entire floor of elementals, his mp was totally full.

Now imagine this behavior through several events. There was no improvement. The "head" whm would tell him on vent that he needed to stop resting (with nearly full mp) and cure since all he had of his 1100 mp was 50. Since when do you have to be told to cure if you have the mp and you are a whm!? Isn't that kinda second nature to you as a whm? I just don't see any effort from this person to pay attention or to do the job correctly. He's also been given some gentle suggestions and directions which obviously haven't worked.

Now I remember coming on whm to my first things in a HNM. I remember feeling intimidated by it all. But the one thing I also remember is if I couldn't get anything else right by God I was gonna keep people healed!! That IS my job on its most basic level!! So I spoke up and voiced my opinion that this person wasn't putting forth the effort and the responses were that he's new and he needs time. After 75 levels, all I was asking for was for him to HEAL.......was I asking for too much?

Quetzalcoatl · 10-28-2007, 10:03 PM

well after 75 lvls u r sopoused to know how to do ur job eficently so i think this guy is just lazy or maybe he bought the acount... w/e why u dont talk to him in tell and see what hapend.
if hes keep the same just talk to the sacks and give him a prove period then if he deserv it just tell him to leave the shell...

thats my opinion

IfritnoItazura · 10-28-2007, 10:12 PM

Give him more definite directions; "Keep these people alive, prioritize in this order:

(person 1) > (person 2) > (rest of them)."

See how he does.

If he's still goofing off, take a screen shot every time multiple people in red HP, while he has most of MP and resting. Then, ax him--there's no reason for him to take up a space needed for a real White Mage.

Aksannyi · 10-28-2007, 10:19 PM

LOL maybe he was afraid of stealing too much hate ...

/dies.

Silent Howler · 10-28-2007, 10:36 PM

It's funny, when I'm playing as Whm it annoys me when I see other party members trying to do my job as healer.

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

LOL maybe he was afraid of stealing too much hate ...

/dies.

{Reraise} {Do you need it?}

Nuriko · 10-28-2007, 10:49 PM

I'm assuming this is an alliance-type situation ... was he unfamiliar with handling more than a party? I know that I don't know how to target the other two parties quickly/easily...

tdh · 10-28-2007, 11:41 PM

After 75 levels of being a Cure Monkey - if you're leveling another job and see somebody in the Red, you reach for your Cure macro. As DRK, on the rare occasion that I get Refresh, as soon as it wears off I think "crap, I missed my Refresh cycle." Your main job leaves that much of an impact on you, that even when you're not that job you're trying to do it subconsciously.

I've heard of WHMs over Curing, but one that just won't Cure? Well, I guess I have heard of one of those. Party a few nights ago (Before I got Ratchet & Clank Future BTW. ^^) as SAM, I died 3 times and each time the WHM had 500MP+.

Maybe we've just played this game too long, TGM. Because I find myself putting up with less and less. BLM complaining that the tank can't keep hate when they cast Thunder III and Blizzard III before the 2nd Provoke? WHMs having to Raise people when they have over 500MP? PLDs and NINs who appear to be afraid of TA WS? After I "tell them about themselves" arguments ensue, never mind the common sense of "this is your job." Perhaps the game is trying to punish me for leveling SAM so fast that it just throws these mental midgets my way in response.

My response? Time for a new WHM.

Necropolis · 10-29-2007, 12:57 AM

Can I assume that he is a newer player (first 75 job) and new to endgame as a whole?

I personally rushed my leveling to jump to the endgame scene as was ill prepared for it. For the longest time I had trouble keeping an alliance alive and keeping an eye out for statis effects. Though I believe I feel more into the 'over cure' genre. My problem was keeping MP and my first endgame shell failed several times because of that. In truth though, it's a bit much to ask a new WHM to main heal at his first Byakko with no other WHMs there. But the shell I had joined was more in a rebuilding phase at that point and were short on numbers as it was.

EXPing and Endgame are very different in my opinion. When joining a more serious HNMLS I was hit on the head a couple times by still over curing. Now the majority of curing is done by the PLDs in my shell for hate (since we use pld/nin so they lack provoke). In exp though you can get away with a bit more and let things slide. Most exp mobs don't have a 1 shot move to take your tanks down.

Your WHM though sounds rather moronic. I was cautious at times about hate and such, and honestly didn't know all the effects caused by various moves. But I made the effort to keep note of anything that transpired in events. I also listened to the more senior members for advice. I see many new recruits though take it as negative criticism and ignore it out of hand.

For new WHMs I'd suggest the party members say in party chat what statis effects they have, if they're missing buffs, and if they need a cure. While I find it annoying now for someone to spam party chat with 'Paralyna Please!', it was helpful when I was new to endgame.

I'd suggest go a few more runs and have someone dedicated to coaching him with LS saying what they need. If you see no improvment in him, write him off as a lost cause and look to recruit another.

Theyaden · 10-29-2007, 12:58 AM

Odd I find myself tabbing through allies looking for the next cure when I'm on any mage job and have to refrain from treading on the party healer because I'm so used to it. I'm only 50 levels of whm can't imagine being 75 and not curing. If people were dying then noone was beating him to the punch as a reason for not using his mana. It's not even like missing a status effect because it flashed by the scroll bar hp can be seen within the pt/alliance anytime. If he's not even keeping people cured with a full mana bar I'ld try to reabilitae followed by kick if that didn't work. If the whm can't heal you can't use him it would be like keeping a tank that doesn't provoke regularily.

Karinya · 10-29-2007, 04:04 AM

If he's going to join an endgame ls as a whm, I'd expect him to at least know how to cure, remove harmful status on request, and maintain haste, protect and shell. That's the minimum he should have learned in exp; less than that means he's either colossally stupid, or didn't actually exp that whm to 60+ (i.e. bought the char).

I'm willing to be lenient to people who don't know which moves cause what effects so they can remove them without needing to be asked (although they should learn that within a few weeks if they're paying attention), or aren't used to using barspells because it's not something everyone does in exp. And MP management in endgame can be very different from MP management in exp, so if he runs out of MP too soon I'd give him some slack on that too.

But sitting on a nearly full MP pool while people go into red hp and other /whms have to take up the healing is really beyond what should be tolerated in a whm.

Feenicks · 10-29-2007, 07:27 PM

You have to prove that he's not doing his job, and I don't mean by screenshots or whatever. Busy yourself with something else and leave all the curing duties to him, and let the event go to crap. Hopefully people will realise that he's not curing and make some kind of action against him.

TheGrandMom · 10-29-2007, 07:37 PM

Yep I can totally understand not being on top of status effects and such when you are new to HNM'ing. Not all moves by mobs register in chat that someone is paralyzed, poisoned, etc. so it takes a while to get used to that. But simply curing is totally the basics and I'd like to think I'm not being too hard on him by expecting that. I know that our "head" whm as been talking with him but I just haven't seen any improvement so thats why I spoke up to some sacs. I don't know, maybe he's a friend of one or something but that just didn't go over well. /sigh

Originally Posted by tdh

Maybe we've just played this game too long, TGM. Because I find myself putting up with less and less.

Gosh, I really hope I'm not getting that way. I really try hard not to and to be helpful with new members whenever I can. In fact, I can be too "motherly" at times I think. LOL Well if I am getting impatient and jaded, I'll have my husband boff me upside the head!

Originally Posted by Feenicks

You have to prove that he's not doing his job, and I don't mean by screenshots or whatever. Busy yourself with something else and leave all the curing duties to him, and let the event go to crap. Hopefully people will realise that he's not curing and make some kind of action against him.

Yep, this I can't do! Failure is not an option! LOL

Grizzlebeard · 10-30-2007, 12:47 AM

Sooner or later you, and the other people picking up his slack, will either not be around or completely out of MP. At that point the tank will probably die or debuffs won't be cured at all and you'll hear people get seriously vocal. That might result in him either upping his game or getting booted for repeatedly bad performance.

IfritnoItazura · 10-30-2007, 03:04 AM

I look up the effects of monster's special attacks before heading out to exp camp when I'm not familiar with the targeted monster. That's on Red Mage.

Never been to HNM camps, but I'm going to guess WHM do not research status effects before showing up is not just sub-par, but is nearly worthless.

Lmnop · 10-30-2007, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Sooner or later you, and the other people picking up his slack, will either not be around or completely out of MP. At that point the tank will probably die or debuffs won't be cured at all and you'll hear people get seriously vocal. That might result in him either upping his game or getting booted for repeatedly bad performance.

...or he'll tag along, let everyone else do all the work, get all the loot he'll ever need, and leave the shell.

Just being optimistic.