question about PT for high lvl chars 50+

[Brayden]

Greetings,

Im mainly asking this to people (whm or not) who are 50+ What is your opinion about not having a whm in a group and instead say... a rdm/whm and smn/whm. Would that combo be enough to assume the role of what would be the whms job? or are some key high lvl spells available to whms only majorly missing to help a PT stay ahead of the game?

[cruets]

i'm lvl 62 whm now, i hear that all the time how they dont need whm at higher lvl and rdm can do the job just as well. funny though how when people in my ls die at lvl 50+ they call me out cause they want a raise2

[Miriamel]

Will a party work without a WHM? Yes.

Will people prefer to have a WHM in their party? Yes.

While most melee jobs are interchangeable, -all- mages have important roles at higher levels. RDM gets Refresh and Dispel (Interchangeable by BRD 55+), BLM has ancient magic (ever seen 1000+ bursts? Holy moly) and Escape and WHM gets Raise II/III, Regen II/III, Cure V, Protect-ra series.

While healing can be done comfortably by a SMN/WHM or pretty much any mage subbing WHM, those goodies (and a few more) are WHM-only.

On top, RDM and BLM have their specific jobs. If you make a RDM the main healer, he will not be able to do the rest of his tasks. I believe Icemage has listed the expectations of each mage in a previous topic. You should do a search. ^_^

[Icemage]

It is true WHM become a slight luxury for a party at higher levels. You can certainly make a functional party without one if you work on getting the right group.

For instance, at higher levels, a party like this wouldn't need a WHM (assuming the players know what they are doing):

PLD/WAR
BRD/WHM
RDM/BLM
SMN/WHM
WAR/SAM
THF/NIN

However, this is not to say that WHM aren't useful. WHM get far less enmity due to WHM AF armor, and get some neat tricks like Regen II/III and Cure V to reduce their enmity even further (these spells are also FAR more MP-efficient than any of the lower level Cure spells).

This, on top of their ability to Reraise I/II/III and Raise II/III make WHM the preferred job for the primary healer slot in a party even at higher levels.


Icemage

[Navia]

Lets be honest here, WHM are totally a luxury when all people want to do is kill lame crap like helm beetles and robber crabs for levels on end.
If you have a warrior to shield break along with a brd and rdm to kill their defense/evasion boosts they are easy kills. CureIII and regenI can *still* get the job done(of course i use regenII though). THF tricking onto the tank makes hate management trivial.
If all monsters past level 50 were as difficult as anticans/manticores/tonberries, WHM would be alot more desired.

Right now though the party mantra is 'Robber crabs for life!' because its low risk and WHM arent needed.
I can't wait to get all my avatars and be a SMN, WHM get no love at this level at all...

[locus]

Ehh... sounds like you're getting disgruntled with white mage to switch to a class that's even LESS popular at level 60.

Unpaired Summoners find it easy to get a group if:
1) There are no red/black/white mages looking for a group
2) You have a level 60+ ninja in the party (also rare)
3) You have Elemental staves/Vermillion/Curing+% weapons/Erase.
4) You have an easily impressionable group that goes "OOH IFRIT SO KEWL"

Otherwise, you'll be stuck with a white mage with half level spells that can pull off a mass stoneskin and mass blink every one minute (and no, Auto-Refresh really isn't better than Conserve MP). At level 70, you get attacks that can do 600-1000 damage every one minute only or completely miss and blow your mp. And most of all, you can't teleport to the hunting areas, nor escape your party in sticky situations (train of crabs, Guivre snacks on you), followed by Tractor and Raise 2 (frankly, plain Raise sorta stinks when you lose 3900 exp if you die). And telling your party "Oh dear, you're stoned? Wait a few moments while I pull out Leviathan" is pretty unsatisfactory.

What you CAN do is cure everyone for massive amounts without getting ridiculous hate... (and I might add WHM can pretty much do the same thing for one person with Cure V, which has fixed hate) but once a minute? Everyone getting hurt(Bad party positioning)? That stops you from casting any other abilities and eats mp REALLY fast. And you can pull monsters that link safely.

There's a reason why a Summoner is also known as a "Cure tank"...

[Navia]

To be clear, I know smn is less desired, but I don't really care about the rate at which I get pt invites or the pace I level at when I am a SMN.

When I play WHM, not having a pt bothers me more because I need xp on a job that is nothing more than a stepping stone to get the job I really want to play. Its like the melees that hate doing 30something levels on warrior when they really want to be SAM,DRG,etc but for a SMN you have to do 60some levels - you look more at your xp bar and its not as enjoyable. When you roll in the fact WHM popularity drops past 50, its even more annoying.
Yeah this is a sore spot for me but i'd probably enjoy my time as a WHM more if it was more challenging to play.

Last night on WHM again doing chain#5 on robber crab in terrigan I was bored because it was 4 hours of:
RegenII the ninja, cast haste on all 4 melees, use barwatera to prevent the crabs water AE damage that I could just curaga to patch everyone up with, throw out a banish or two so I wasn't standing with full mp while the rdm refreshed me and nuked/enfeebled.

I did have to pay closer attention for one fight when we had a velociraptor link :p

Still I felt like I was just a haste bot and being able to cast teleport-Altep to help get us to our hunting spot and get everyone out was what got me the PT spot.

[locus]

If you think white mage is "easy to play", I highly recommend that at that level, you stop fighting crabs (braindead, if you think you require no skill to play, wait till you try playing the warrior) and try cockatrices, manticores or torama. Oh, and Spiders.

White mage is not at all easy to play when you have twelve different status ailments to cure, people to Erase, Regen to cast on someone, people that need healing (spider poison can do up to 15 damage over 3 seconds, it is NOT pretty) and the spider suddenly decides to pull off sickle slash in the middle of the renkei. (MAJOR pain and very possible death)

Another way to make white mage more challenging - sub bard, try to keep people madrigalled, the back row balladed, therenody to weak elements, cure people, cast regen, barfira and stona at the same time. And yes, I've had to do this before (Den of Rancor)- there is NO time for chatting.

White mage is a challenge when fighting any of the above and the following monsters:

Molbols.
Scorpions (Wheee 811 damage death sting)
Goblin Alchemists(wheee kaboom!)
Bombs (see above)
Bats (Jet stream only gets worse)
Anything that loves to cast Dispel(ga).
Anything in a Burning Circle
Annoying old men (see above)

[Navia]

Right.. like the WHM has any say on where the pt wants to go when its usually jp lol. Even rank10 players leveling their 2nd,3rd job up to 75 stick to crabs/beetles/crawlers.

Believe me I know all about the joys of fighting spiders,scorpions and even tonberries but noone ever wants to fight them -_- ( I always secretly pray for a bad pull so things get spiced up lol)

Everyone takes the safe,easy and boring path to xp and then whines about the lack of variety of monsters to fight for xp...lol.
They need to gimp xp on crabs and raise xp on stuff that is risky to fight, that might help.

[Jei]

Well, with high level Whm, the main big difference is the teleport spells and the ~na spells. Travelling become much more pleasant with a Whm and the group is willing to get them. Lizards are not worth fighting without stona is so on.

Another part is the party setup itself. If your party is ... War Drk Thf? Or have a ranger in the group for example.... you are definitely fine on the attacking aspect and you'll be looking for healings.

[Aurege]

yeah....
smn is soooo horrible :spin: :spin: