[Feba]

Originally Posted by Armando

super rape party.

oh so that's what that doujin was about.

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Armando

All this demand for the doujin/cover almost makes me want to change the title of the thread. I'll send some more PMs soon.

By the way, does anyone know what happens if you Quick Draw Shield Break? I've read that you can increase the Def Down on weapons with that added effect, so maybe it's possible to make Shield Break even more stupidly broken.

QD only works on standard white/black magic debuffs with varying potency.

[Dahlaine]

off topic: I'd like to request a pm for that doujin/cover.

on topic: Great info, hopefully people that take up WAR will listen.

[Lmnop]

Yeah... at 75, capped marksmanship has 59 less accuracy than capped Great axe. Unless you're on sushi, it's not even really feasible to try for acid bolts. I don't feel bad about a WAR switching to Bomb Core as soon as it's available, but up 'til 50ish it should be pretty easy to keep capped and doesn't take too much investment to gear up (I.M. hands/feet come to mind). Also, I've invested 12 merits into Tomahawk. Bomb Core swap lets me keep TP.

On Colibri: they resist everything. I did some testing with a couple different breaks (Shield Break and Full Break* actually), and the colibri completely resisted the effects of both WSs 3/3 times. I've never had another mob "resist completely" on a Break except for Shield break on undead. So this is a significant resistance. Immunity, unproven but likely.

*First, I'd like to ask why Full Break is worse than Armor Break in your eyes. Seems like the order of breaks would be Shield > Full > Armor > Weapon.
Second, I'd like to point out that I'm a bit amazed you didn't point out the interesting thing about resisting Full Break. There's a lot of information around that states Full Break is tied to Earth resistance. This is 75% untrue. In fact, only the acc down effect is earth-based. Full Break delivers 4 separate debuff effects that can be resisted individually. Each tied to a corresponding element (ice=eva down, water=attack down, earth=acc down, wind=def down). The trials to figure this stuff out was actually a task appointed to me by Armando, which I spent an evening figuring out for him.

Main uses for Full Break:
-Fighting a mob you know will take long enough that the Breaks will pay for themselves but unsure what elements the mob resists.
-Opening Darkness.
-...Impressing your friends.

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If Armando says it's the really bad kind, it's gotta be Goro. Goro with a lot of poop in every panel.

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Armando

All this demand for the doujin/cover almost makes me want to change the title of the thread. I'll send some more PMs soon.

The art style looks very familiar, though I can't think of the guy's name. He does a lot of FFXI stuff though and while some can be wierd, it at least looks good.

Originally Posted by Feba

oh so that's what that doujin was about.

Seeing as it's street fighter related, that's most likely correct.

Originally Posted by Lmnop

First, I'd like to ask why Full Break is worse than Armor Break in your eyes. Seems like the order of breaks would be Shield > Full > Armor > Weapon.

Second, I'd like to point out that I'm a bit amazed you didn't point out the interesting thing about resisting Full Break. There's a lot of information around that states Full Break is tied to Earth resistance. This is 75% untrue. In fact, only the acc down effect is earth-based. Full Break delivers 4 separate debuff effects that can be resisted individually. Each tied to a corresponding element (ice=eva down, water=attack down, earth=acc down, wind=def down). The trials to figure this stuff out was actually a task appointed to me by Armando, which I spent an evening figuring out for him.

Main uses for Full Break:
-Fighting a mob you know will take long enough that the Breaks will pay for themselves but unsure what elements the mob resists.
-Opening Darkness.
-...Impressing your friends.

I actually use Full Break a lot when I'm campaigning. If I'm on a mob with 1-3 people and it has a lot of HP, I'll usually use Full Break first. Because those things have so much HP and can hit like trucks against some jobs, lowering all their stats to some extent just seems more worth while then lowering just their Eva or doing straight up Dmg. With Quadav especially, I'll have plenty of time to throw out a few RRs to bring the pain after I open with Full Break, unless there's 20 people on it.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Armando

By the way, does anyone know what happens if you Quick Draw Shield Break? I've read that you can increase the Def Down on weapons with that added effect, so maybe it's possible to make Shield Break even more stupidly broken.

To my knowledge, Quick Draw doesn't affect proc weapons unless the effect inflicted is comprable to a White/Black Magic or Ninjutsu enfeeble so much that the system would consider the effect to be the spell. If QD does affect WS effects outside of the ones that do standard enfeebs, its news to me. Pretty sure Ice Shot will affect something like Blade: Retsu, though.

If Shield Break does work with Ice Shot it would be rather difficult to measure. However, if you can just hop into Brenner or Ballista with a COR, WAR and a willing victim, you could test out Armor Break with Wind Shot and can note any differences in the resulting defense.

If Wind Shot enhances Armor Break, we can safely assume Ice Shot will affect Shield Break.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Callisto

QD only works on standard white/black magic debuffs with varying potency.

I hear Light Shot and Dark Shot up Dia and Bio tiers.

[Callisto]

Erm yeah that too, but they still get stuck with original tier durations, and they don't upgrade the Tier III ones.

[Armando]

Yeah, I believe you guys are right about Quick Draw, I did a bit of searching around and the bit about Wind Shot affecting Acid Bolts was false. Stupid wiki. Oh well. Even if Shield Break + Ice Shot worked, it would likely get nerfed =P

Originally Posted by Ziero

The art style looks very familiar, though I can't think of the guy's name. He does a lot of FFXI stuff though and while some can be wierd, it at least looks good.

I don't think it's whomever you're thinking of, unless by "some can be weird" you mean "all of it" and by "weird" you mean "sweaty armpit fetishes (among many other things)." But hey, who knows. Maybe the guy really does draw FFXI stuff and I've had the good fortune of never running into any of it.

Originally Posted by Lmnop

*First, I'd like to ask why Full Break is worse than Armor Break in your eyes. Seems like the order of breaks would be Shield > Full > Armor > Weapon.

When you use Full Break you're trading off the extra -20 Evasion evasion from Shield Break for one of the two offense-reducing debuffs (Acc Down is wasted on PLDs and Attack Down is wasted on NINs; Acid Bolts give the same amount of Def Down.) That's almost always a loss unless you're doing something like low-manning Charybdis or something of the sort, where every little bit helps to stay alive.

Armor Break, on the other hand, gets a chance to shine when coupled with Shield Break.

Originally Posted by Lmnop

If Armando says it's the really bad kind, it's gotta be Goro. Goro with a lot of poop in every panel.

You mean to say "guro."

[DakAttack]

He means Goro.

[Vyuru]

Seeing as how that cover for some strange undefinable reason looks vaguely familiar, I'll pass on requesting a PM for it

Some quetions however.


The thought of going War/nin with a Gaxe bothers me. For most non merit camps, should this really be considered? I understand that shadows are great and all, but if you're using a Gaxe then you only get the benefit of shadows, and you lose out on the goodies of /Sam or /Thf. It seems like a poor tradeoff to me and I feel that if I'm going /Nin than I should be using one handed weapons, but then I'm not using a Gaxe but I'm only using a part of my subjob's abilities, and this cycle continues.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Armando

When you use Full Break you're trading off the extra -20 Evasion evasion from Shield Break for one of the two offense-reducing debuffs (Acc Down is wasted on PLDs and Attack Down is wasted on NINs; Acid Bolts give the same amount of Def Down.) That's almost always a loss unless you're doing something like low-manning Charybdis or something of the sort, where every little bit helps to stay alive.

That's assuming acid bolts are always present. That's just not always (or even usually) the case when you have access to Full Break. Also, I'd make the case that the -attack does more for a typical NIN than a typical PLD but I'm too lazy to type more on that right now.

You mean to say "guro."

I'm admittedly happy to see I got it wrong. That's one direction my tastes will never steer toward. I prefer the Mortal Kombat stuff.

[Celeal]

Originally Posted by Vyuru

Some quetions however.

The thought of going War/nin with a Gaxe bothers me. For most non merit camps, should this really be considered? I understand that shadows are great and all, but if you're using a Gaxe then you only get the benefit of shadows, and you lose out on the goodies of /Sam or /Thf. It seems like a poor tradeoff to me and I feel that if I'm going /Nin than I should be using one handed weapons, but then I'm not using a Gaxe but I'm only using a part of my subjob's abilities, and this cycle continues.

G.Axe + WAR/NIN for offensive-wise is not an issue, with the way 2-handed weapon's accuracy and attack being computed, plus the skill difference between Axe's A- rank vs G.Axe's A rank (start at level 60+), all the gears, subjobs and tools that WAR has access, etc.

The main issue with WAR at higher level is staying alive while trying to use all his offensive tools, since WAR's native defensive/survival ability is quite ... not reliable. WAR/NIN + G.Axe works extremely well at level 74+.

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As for Full Break vs other WS-Break, by the time you have access to Full Break and if you are not WAR/SAM, the chances of using WS-Break out of alternative tools (from WAR or party members) is slim.

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by Celeal

The main issue with WAR at higher level is staying alive while trying to use all his offensive tools, since WAR's native defensive/survival ability is quite ... non-existant. WAR/NIN + G.Axe works extremely well at level 74+.

Fixed! >.>

[Armando]

The thought of going War/nin with a Gaxe bothers me. For most non merit camps, should this really be considered? I understand that shadows are great and all, but if you're using a Gaxe then you only get the benefit of shadows, and you lose out on the goodies of /Sam or /Thf. It seems like a poor tradeoff to me and I feel that if I'm going /Nin than I should be using one handed weapons, but then I'm not using a Gaxe but I'm only using a part of my subjob's abilities, and this cycle continues.

/NIN has more reliable/consistent survivability than /SAM, and /THF has none. Either way, opting to dual wield just because you have it isn't a very legitimate reason. It's kind of like a PLD/RDM nuking with Banish II so that Magic Attack Bonus doesn't go to waste. You should dual wield if you know you can do more damage than using a Great Axe that way, not to put a sub job trait to use. Which one is going to be better depends on the weapons that are available to you, how your merits are distributed (weapon skills as well as group 1; DA merits are partially wasted on multi-hit weapons,) what mob you're fighting (against hard things, you might not be able to eat meat while dual wielding) and your gear (there's a big difference between DWII and DWII+Suppa).

Either way the guide is supposed to be aimed at newbies. From 5-55 Great Axe is better than one-handed axes hands-down, Dual Wield or not.

PMs sent by the way.