[Sevv]

Yes i know how it works but its fine, im going to horde 10M worth of discounted hides choke the dusk market and make more gil.

[eltio]

Originally Posted by Sevv

If they are saying that amir is better then dusk and unicorn then point blank the idiots. Don't go to alla for advice really.

Dusk > Unicorn > Amir

I seriously hope you don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be...

Amir Boots are sometimes better than haste boots and vice versa. If you know your acc% it isn't hard to figure out. It just takes a little math to figure out. Whichever nets the most landed strikes wins. Sometimes hitting slower but more reliably is better than hitting faster and whiffing.


Kinda like how if you're wearing a walahra turban instead of an o.hat while fighting a thf mob you're most likely making a bad decision.

And lol @ forum chauvinism.

[Sevv]

Originally Posted by eltio

I seriously hope you don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be...

Amir Boots are sometimes better than haste boots and vice versa. If you know your acc% it isn't hard to figure out. It just takes a little math to figure out. Whichever nets the most landed strikes wins. Sometimes hitting slower but more reliably is better than hitting faster and whiffing.


Kinda like how if you're wearing a walahra turban instead of an o.hat while fighting a thf mob you're most likely making a bad decision.

And lol @ forum chauvinism.

If your a serious Warrior and your having ACC problems... Then you are doing it wrong. Any day you wanna bring your amir boots to a parse, I would be glad to double digit difference you.

Lol @ not knowing warrior.

[ItachiKujata]

Originally Posted by Sevv

If your a serious Warrior and your having ACC problems... Then you are doing it wrong. Any day you wanna bring your amir boots to a parse, I would be glad to double digit difference you.

Lol @ not knowing warrior.

Not everyone plays warrior the same. So what defines you as a serious war? merits? equipment? with full haste gear (turban, dusk hands, swift belt, dusk feet, byakko pants), you only have a handful of spots left for ACC. Of course it would be great to have the best Accuracy pieces in the remaining spots but what if you can't afford a Peacock Charm, sniper+1s, toreadors, bomblet, etc? Does that mean you're doing warrior wrong? that mean you're not a serious warrior? that's a pretty narrow minded view you have there if you think that...

[Sevv]

Originally Posted by ItachiKujata

Not everyone plays warrior the same. So what defines you as a serious war? merits? equipment? with full haste gear (turban, dusk hands, swift belt, dusk feet, byakko pants), you only have a handful of spots left for ACC. Of course it would be great to have the best Accuracy pieces in the remaining spots but what if you can't afford a Peacock Charm, sniper+1s, toreadors, bomblet, etc? Does that mean you're doing warrior wrong? that mean you're not a serious warrior? that's a pretty narrow minded view you have there if you think that...

When your comparing the three pieces of gear your looking at the best set up possible. Because if you don't in all due seriousness the best ffxi quote ever inc: "Shit is situational" Each piece has its own benefits or we would never have any choices right? If your at this level and you can't be wise enough to learn how to adapt to mobs and situations, then your not a serious war. Btw PCC is hardly and effort to obtain one, you don't need snipers +1 or toreadors or even a bomblet. Unless my base character is the Jesus of warrior's acc isn't an issue, if you know what you are doing.

[ItachiKujata]

best possible setup is situational then right? Against a highly evasive mob like HNMs or even just mamool ja thfs, an all out haste build will probably lose out to one with enough accuracy to make haste worth it.

If your at this level and you can't be wise enough to learn how to adapt to mobs and situations, then your not a serious war.

Exactly the point that eltio was trying to make and you said "If your a serious Warrior and your having ACC problems... Then you are doing it wrong." Seems like you're just contradicting yourself here to prove what?

Comparing Amir, Dusk, Unicorn in the best possible situation isn't really comparing them because you could change around the variables to make one better than the other... Not enough accuracy? Amir wins... At full health all the time, Unicorn wins... Enough accuracy and tanking a little, Dusk wins...

Seems like you're just trying to start an argument with no real points to make. And my point is exactly as you stated, you need to adapt to mobs and situations and that includes knowing when Amir will do more for you than Dusk or Unicorn...

[Lmnop]

Is the pissing contest over, yet?

Bleh. I think VZX did a calculation where he showed that Joyeuse was worth more than a dagger (for a dancer, probably) even when accuracy was super crappy. i.e. the double attack rate made up for crappy accuracy so much, it's absurd. I wish I knew what I was talking about because I know it applies... some how.

Anyway, acc is always a straight %+ of damage dealt, in the scheme of things. acc+6 is 3% more hits. That's 3% more damage. 3% more tp.

Haste isn't so linear (it took Armando like 4 months to finally make me understand that 50% haste = double speed, not +50% speed). You have say... 9-14% haste already? You're getting more than 3% damage/tp out of those unicorn boots. At these higher levels of Haste, I think you'll find that even @60% acc, the haste 3% does more than acc 3%

Greataxe? Axe? sushi? meat? I don't give a shit. Unicorn, statistically, wins if you're not taking damage and if the rest of your gear is haste (which is, unfortunately, the goal of every melee).

[Sevv]

Originally Posted by ItachiKujata

best possible setup is situational then right? Against a highly evasive mob like HNMs or even just mamool ja thfs, an all out haste build will probably lose out to one with enough accuracy to make haste worth it.

Welcome to real endgame there are these amazing things called Bards, and sushi. I can man-ridill in full haste and be near acc cap lol.

Originally Posted by ItachiKujata

Exactly the point that eltio was trying to make and you said "If your a serious Warrior and your having ACC problems... Then you are doing it wrong." Seems like you're just contradicting yourself here to prove what?

Comparing Amir, Dusk, Unicorn in the best possible situation isn't really comparing them because you could change around the variables to make one better than the other... Not enough accuracy? Amir wins... At full health all the time, Unicorn wins... Enough accuracy and tanking a little, Dusk wins...

Seems like you're just trying to start an argument with no real points to make. And my point is exactly as you stated, you need to adapt to mobs and situations and that includes knowing when Amir will do more for you than Dusk or Unicorn...

In all situations but full Hp Dusk will win out for endgame geared warriors. That is my point.

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Is the pissing contest over, yet?

Almost

[eticket109]

What the hell? Am I on BG? My favorites must have gotten fubar'ed again.

[ItachiKujata]

Welcome to real endgame there are these amazing things called Bards, and sushi. I can man-ridill in full haste and be near acc cap lol.

I thought the point is you have to adapt to situations? You might not be in a party with a bard all the time, why eat sushi if you have the acc already? can argue with you about this all day I guess but at least I agree with one of your statements which you seem to not even agree with anymore lol...

anyway, I still maintain that Amir still has it's place. I'm not saying it's better than dusk/unicorn ALL the time. I dunno but I find it hard to believe that @60% accuracy, 3% haste is better... then again 6 accuracy is probably not significant either... If you can find a clear parse that shows it, I'd like to see it. I'll probably be driven to test this out myself lol

[Sevv]

Honestly there are dozens of tests on BG

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by ItachiKujata

anyway, I still maintain that Amir still has it's place. I'm not saying it's better than dusk/unicorn ALL the time. I dunno but I find it hard to believe that @60% accuracy, 3% haste is better... then again 6 accuracy is probably not significant either... If you can find a clear parse that shows it, I'd like to see it. I'll probably be driven to test this out myself lol

Pretty sure this is one of those things that would take a lot of lengthy parsing to show any difference in. i.e. no matter what, the results vary so much just from letting yourself WS at 114% tp occasionally instead of 100%...

But I still think what I said is true. Which means I agree with Sevv. Which means I'm slightly terrified.

Random, oversimplified numbers:

20% haste, 63% acc, 1000 theoretical damage/minute (@100% accuracy)
20% haste would be 25% higher damage (1/.8)
1250*.63 for acc
787.5 damage/minute

23% haste, 60% acc, 1000 theoretical damage/minute (@100% accuracy)
23% haste would be 29.987% extra damage (1/.77)
1298.7*.60 for acc
779.22 damage/minute


This post likely has all sorts of unrealized mathematical flaws. On the off chance that it's right though, note that you're only losing 6 damage/minute. If you're dealing closer to 1500/minute (all of this assumes weapon skills are mysteriously absent), then obviously it's gonna be a bit wider of a margin (looks like 12ish, in fact ).

[Sevv]

Agreeing with me when it comes to equipping jobs, camps, pt set ups is fine, its on the ethical shit you should be worried.

[eticket109]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

But I still think what I said is true. Which means I agree with Sevv. Which means I'm slightly terrified.

best
quote
ever

[ItachiKujata]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Pretty sure this is one of those things that would take a lot of lengthy parsing to show any difference in. i.e. no matter what, the results vary so much just from letting yourself WS at 114% tp occasionally instead of 100%...

But I still think what I said is true. Which means I agree with Sevv. Which means I'm slightly terrified.

Random, oversimplified numbers:

20% haste, 63% acc, 1000 theoretical damage/minute (@100% accuracy)
20% haste would be 25% higher damage (1/.8)
1250*.63 for acc
787.5 damage/minute

23% haste, 60% acc, 1000 theoretical damage/minute (@100% accuracy)
23% haste would be 29.987% extra damage (1/.77)
1298.7*.60 for acc
779.22 damage/minute


This post likely has all sorts of unrealized mathematical flaws. On the off chance that it's right though, note that you're only losing 6 damage/minute. If you're dealing closer to 1500/minute (all of this assumes weapon skills are mysteriously absent), then obviously it's gonna be a bit wider of a margin (looks like 12ish, in fact ).

ooo here's my take on some simplified random numbers :

Given:
100 Swings
20 Dmg per swing
5 seconds delay in between swings and to start swinging
Total time = 500 Secs
Total dmg = 2000 DMG if all 100% acc
assuming no weaponskills of course just straight DoT

+20% Haste (60% acc)
Delay -20% = 5-(5*.20) = 4 secs
# of swings = 500 Secs / 4 Secs per swing = 125 swings
DMG total = 125 * 20 = 2500
60% accuracy= 60% of the swings connected
125 swings * .60 = 75 swings - number of swings you'd land at 60% accuracy
DMG @60% = 75 * 20 = 1500 dmg

+23% Haste (60% acc)
Delay -23% = 5-(5*.23) = 3.85 secs
# of swings = 500 secs / 3.85 secs per swing = 129 swings
Dmg total = 129 * 20 = 2580
129 swings * .60 = 77 swings - number of swings you'd land at 60% accuracy
DMG @60% = 77 * 20 = 1540 dmg

+20% Haste (63% acc)
Delay -20% = 5-(5*.20) = 4 secs
# of swings = 500 Secs / 4 Secs per swing = 125 swings
DMG total = 125 * 20 = 2500
63% accuracy= 63% of the swings connected
125 swings * .63 = 78 swings - number of swings you'd land at 63% accuracy
DMG @60% = 78 * 20 = 1560 dmg

Dunno if this is right or not lol... but I tried to think about it in more real world terms like you won't get fractions of a swing in there but only whole swings... this also assumes haste lowers delay directly by that amount...

so I dunno still not convinced that haste rules no matter what your accuracy is... I think there's a sweet spot somewhere that accuracy no longer gives good gains and haste does better... like if you plug in 80% accuracy with 23% haste and 83% accuracy with 20% haste and you'll get the same dmg...

of course I could just be talking out of my ass lol