How is Warrior these days?

[Armando]

In all fairness, for the first 50 levels, I'd be better off shield breaking than using a shield, even if I'm going to take hits to the face instead of using /NIN, and Knight's Minne is wasted in comparison to Minuet/Madrigal on both PLD and NIN...and if you expect a WAR to tank with his face then he should be /BLU or /DNC. Minne would be wasted on /BLU as well.

Overall the main factor would probably be EXP rate though. It would be interesting to see how well a WAR could tank nowadays, but even if word got out that it can work very well, if it got less EXP than a PLD or a NIN they'd drop it immediately.

[Tomato_Kai]

::Side note/mini-rant:: I've seen one whitemage in a dune party since I've been back that actually knew how to keep a warrior tank alive with exposing herself to minimum damage. Too many people are spoiled with power leveling friends and have no idea how to heal >.< grrrr.... /rant

I almost want to derail a little just to touch on this topic yet again. I hate PL's! ><;


Ok, done.


Back on topic?

War/Thf Seems ok post 30... but, honestly, I can't think of a single reason to go War/Thf before then. War/Mnk would get more... stuff. Higher Str and Vit, more hp, and boost! which is sweet. Also: Never underestimate counter. It is win :D

[Lmnop]

Would like to point out that no one had a problem with accepting Pld/war as the only acceptable PLD tanking layout for upwards of 5 years...

Even if Retaliation was designed for War/dnc, that's a buff to Warrior.

...Assuming the proc rate is good enough on T-IT mobs. I don't believe for a second the 5% figures.


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To continue down the garden path: There's only been one job I didn't enjoy leveling, and that was my WHM which is only a measly 18. I hated leveling WHM because I realized just how much a difference a PL made. An Elvaan WHM main healer with the best pies or cookies but no Astral Rings can only keep most dunes parties going for ~1-2 fights before taking a full rest.

I hate PLs so much. And I hated even more the realization that the party actually needed one to break 3k/hour (though I blame the other party members here for not having a good enough handle on their own damage intake).

[Malacite]

I'm a 70 MNK, and I tank better with Counterstance, Dodge and Focus up than I do on my WAR most of the time depending on the mob.

I'm well aware of the huge penalties it puts on DEF (which is why I always pop Berserk as well since DEF has already gone down the shitter) and I find it to be fairly irrelevant outside of WS. My point was you're going to get smacked either way, but at least on MNK you have some mitigation abilities and a B+ rank evasion.

WAR has jack squat. Defender really won't do all that much to save your life. (IT's still maul me on BLU with Cocoon and def food, so defender isn't going to help a whole lot) The job has all it needs to get and keep hate, but not to stay alive. C- evasion, and a tiny defensive ability do not compare to the abilities of a NIN or PLD.

From 30+ WAR really just can't take the hits as well anymore. Contrary to what you think BBQ, some of us do explore all our options on the jobs we play and some of them simply just don't pan out as well as we'd like. I'd rather test my luck on SAM/WAR with Seigan up over WAR/SAM or WAR/MNK. I don't think we really need to discuss /NIN at 74+ since it's the same for most melee (save WAR has voke and warcry to spike hate)

Retaliation is nothing more than another TP tool. Now, if it stacked with Counter somehow that'd be great but I seriously doubt that's the case. The best thing SE can do for WAR is make wearing heavy armor actually do something other than marginally increase your DEF over other armors. How about giving WAR and PLD a trait (or simply tweaking the really heavy armors only they can use) that changes the VIT/DEF ratio to 1:1?

[IfritnoItazura]

The best thing SE can do for WAR is make wearing heavy armor actually do something other than marginally increase your DEF over other armors. How about giving WAR and PLD a trait (or simply tweaking the really heavy armors only they can use) that changes the VIT/DEF ratio to 1:1?

Well, as a PLD who's nutty enough to bring both DD and defense gear to exp parties, I can tell the difference between defense armor, offensive gear, Berserk up, Defender up from the amount of damage I'm receiving. It made enough of a difference that at Lv.71, I tanked Puks in full DD gear, and macro'ed to full defense gear for Mamool Ja if that's what the puller brought back. (Think that was before I got Iron Ram Sallet set, so Adaman except feet.) Can tell the difference on Imps, too; tanked those in DD gear since Lv.72, but only used Berserk for WS.

Defense does work--just not always for the best exp/hour.

[Lmnop]

WAR has jack squat. Defender really won't do all that much to save your life. (IT's still maul me on BLU with Cocoon and def food, so defender isn't going to help a whole lot) The job has all it needs to get and keep hate, but not to stay alive. C- evasion, and a tiny defensive ability do not compare to the abilities of a NIN or PLD.

Would like to point out that no one had a problem with accepting Pld/war as the only acceptable PLD tanking layout for upwards of 5 years...

Even if Retaliation was designed for War/dnc, that's a buff to Warrior.

Retaliation may be just a tp trick. But it's a darn good one. Not to say I'm 100% sure war/dnc will become "the next tank!" as much as just... have some faith. Don't be so quick to bring down every change S-E implements. That's the kind of attitude that says DRG sucks regardless of how many updates they get.

Retaliation is nothing more than another TP tool. Now, if it stacked with Counter somehow that'd be great but I seriously doubt that's the case.

Pretty simple. If a war/mnk using retaliation were to Counter, it'd be impossible for Retaliate to proc. So you can benefit from both, but I think I see what you're saying. It'd be great, but overpowered, if we could replace an enemy attack with 2 of our own.

[Pteryx]

And I really don't understand why they've done that. Wasn't WAR already fine enough with damage on its own? Were they thinking it was a means of generating more hate for tanking purposes? If so it seems like a movement in the wrong direction and I can't understand SE's train of thought at all in this.

I can only guess that they were thinking, "Let's bait those DD WARs into tanking by making tanking a good way to DD!" (Personally, I would've done something to make it so 40+ WARs get more benefit from healing abilities and spells than other people instead, to mitigate the "MP sponge" problem while preserving WAR's need for outside assistance.)

I have to disagree with the sentiment that WARs can't tank past 30, though. At 29 the Eisen/Kampf gear set, which is superior for defense for quite some time, becomes available. You can tank all the way to 40 with it, if anyone will consider letting you try. By 40, though, your capability as a tank will begin to drop off even with up-to-date gear...

If you do want to tank as a WAR, be sure to put that in your search comment. Most WARs are absolutely terrified of tanking, to the point that it's assumed that any given WAR will refuse to and feel tricked if they're told they're going to. -- Pteryx

[Malacite]

Pretty simple. If a war/mnk using retaliation were to Counter, it'd be impossible for Retaliate to proc. So you can benefit from both, but I think I see what you're saying. It'd be great, but overpowered, if we could replace an enemy attack with 2 of our own.

No, what I was getting at was since they're both a "counter" of sorts, it would be great if their activation rates stacked but that'd be just nutty and broken. And idk what level your WAR is Ifrit, but last time I tried gearing up for tanking (AF for enmity and def food + defender etc) puks were still reaming me for over 200 dmg a hit. Also, you missed my point about armor completely which is that it doesn't matter what kind you wear if two people have the same or very similar defense ratings, which is just wrong IMO.

How about straight damage reduction based on type? (with appropriate evasion penalties I'd say)

[Lmnop]

No he didn't. Trolls hit me for 200/swing and hit PLDs for 60/swing. That's the difference that defensive gear/food and +48 defense in job traits does for them (oh, and A rank VIT for kicks).

[Asmodai]

heya guys, im posting back in just to update. I've been watching this thread all week. Good info. Thank you all! I lvl'd up my war to 18 now and working on Monk. in the meantime some of our guild friends will prolly help out in the subjob quest either tonight or sunday.

Currently it looks like im gonna do the war/mnk. Right now im working on getting the monk up to 15 so i can take the war up to 30. I haven't decided what to advance in. I've talked to a couple guys and the dual weilds sounds like fun. im still not familiar with what the Nin or Paladin has besides being a better tank. oh well Good times. Thanks again.

[Lmnop]

Dual wield is fun, I'll give you that. But efficiency-wise, you're going to want a Greataxe for the first 40-50 levels of the game. This was true before 2 handed weapons got buffed up, now it's just... more true.

[Asmodai]

I was going to ask, since I started with warrior on this character. Is war the only one I can lvl to 75 or can I lvl other jobs to 75 with out starting a new character?

[Armando]

You can level as many jobs to 75 as you like on the same character, even all of them.

Also, what Lmnop said.

[Asmodai]

yes, luckily someone told me early on to use the G.axe. as a lvl 18 I have my G.axe up to fifty something. So im well on my way. Thanks guys, Btw yes im at work and bored so im reading up on anything I can find.