[Celeal]

This food is even great for a general two-hander DD, PLD/WAR or PLD/DNC tank

[nanatsu]

Originally Posted by Armando

Holy shit. That food looks soooooooooooooooooooo broken. It's also going to be expensive as SIN.

So far it's 15K per pie on Ragnarok D:

EDIT: seems overpriced at the moment since the recipe yields 2 pies per synth.

[byte]

Hey, I haven't posted here in some years. Infact not since the game came out I think (I couldn't believe this site was still up, found it again through google). Anyway, you guys seem to be a lot more open minded about the potential of WAR/DNC tanking than some of the forums i frequent so I thought I'd share a video of WAR/DNC tanking endgame. (which I haven't seen posted here yet, suprisingly, despite all the discussion about WAR/DNC). Some of you might have seen it before.

War/Dnc vs Faust:

WAR/DNC tanks Faust

WAR/DNC tanks Faust

ps: sorry if this belongs in a new thread..

[Sevv]

hi byte.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Armando

Holy shit. That food looks soooooooooooooooooooo broken. It's also going to be expensive as SIN.

Yeah, but you can see why they did it; existing atk and def foods are losing popularity compared to sushi.

It's going to be amazing for hybrid-build pld tanks as well as war tanks, if these stats are accurate.

This thread also makes me wonder about sam/dnc... a bit worse def and no shield, but A parry, plus seigan (35+) and third eye. No provoke, though. Meditate has a nice chunk of hate on its own (or not so nice if you're not trying to tank), which is only increased when you use that tp to dance some more...

It's almost guaranteed to be a godly solo build, but actual tanking potential would depend on whether or not you can hold hate *just* with damage and feeding your tp gain into dances.

Damn, I need to level DNC now...

[Celeal]

Originally Posted by Karinya

Yeah, but you can see why they did it; existing atk and def foods are losing popularity compared to sushi.

It's going to be amazing for hybrid-build pld tanks as well as war tanks, if these stats are accurate.

This thread also makes me wonder about sam/dnc... a bit worse def and no shield, but A parry, plus seigan (35+) and third eye. No provoke, though. Meditate has a nice chunk of hate on its own (or not so nice if you're not trying to tank), which is only increased when you use that tp to dance some more...

It's almost guaranteed to be a godly solo build, but actual tanking potential would depend on whether or not you can hold hate *just* with damage and feeding your tp gain into dances.

Damn, I need to level DNC now...

I was party as SAM/DNC (lvl 70) in Imp camp yesterday, as a DD. Haven't try as tank yet. I think Tonosama R. Ball + AF gloves (rice ball effect) can be interesting.

Now my PLD is pretty much PLD/DNC exp. full time (merit or campaign). From my experience, PLD/WAR's Provoke, Warcry, Double Attack and WS is a huge amount of spike hate missing in PLD/DNC. In other words, PLD/DNC gives up WS in order to have Steps and Animated Flourish, and substitute healer's cure (MP) with PLD/DNC's Waltz and Samba (TP). However, PLD/DNC can toggle between tank and back-up healer effectively in TP-burn parties.

[Lmnop]

Karinya, I verified the stats. They are correct. I'm still hoping someone tells me how to make thumbnails so I can attach them that way...

Also, don't forget that Sam/dnc would still have Animated Flourish for a flash-esque hate gain every 30 seconds.

Byte, that video doesn't work for me. Currently unavailable or some such.

[Sevv]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Karinya, I verified the stats. They are correct. I'm still hoping someone tells me how to make thumbnails so I can attach them that way...

Also, don't forget that Sam/dnc would still have Animated Flourish for a flash-esque hate gain every 30 seconds.

Byte, that video doesn't work for me. Currently unavailable or some such.

The only problem that got him flack on bg with that video is the amount of support he has. A war/anything could tank faust with the kind of support he has.

[byte]

Originally Posted by Sevv

The only problem that got him flack on bg with that video is the amount of support he has. A war/anything could tank faust with the kind of support he has.

lol no because I never lost hate even though I told the DDs to go all out. I have seen plenty of PLDs which lost hate on it when there were only Tier 3 nukes and such. Maybe for the elitists on BG, 2WHMs and a BRD is zmg loads of support but in my experience it's certainly not. The COR barely did anything beyond the fist initial roll (Warrior's Roll.. which I didn't even need). The line up didn't even include a RDM ffs. I picked Faust because it's generally considered difficult to tank due to the damage taken and shadow loss, I'm sorry if some self proclaimed experts disagree with this.

Do I deny that WAR/DNC requires more support? I certainly don't and I agree it would probably need a little bit more. But is the additional hate worth it? It sure seems like it to me. I have to agree with the above poster that SAM/DNC is probably the best job combination to exploit /DNC sub. Hell, you even get a free Ridill (Soboro) and maintain some form of mitigation (Third Eye, Seigan) which Warrior barely does. This is why I'm now going to go after using Shield Skill (Which warrior has the second highest in) because that's probably the only way it's going to work with few enough support to convince the masses.

PS: I really would like to see a WAR/anything else (With similar gear to what I was able to obtain.. Sure if you have full Koenig gear, Defending ring and such, I'm sure it's no problem as /RDM for instance.) tank this with 2WHM, BRD and COR (COR can't sub /WHM because mine wasn't). Do it and post a video.

PSS: Yeah, the video seems to be down, I'll find somewhere alternative to host it.

[Sevv]

Originally Posted by byte

lol no because I never lost hate even though I told the DDs to go all out. I have seen plenty of PLDs which lost hate on it when there were only Tier 3 nukes and such. Maybe for the elitists on BG, 2WHMs and a BRD is zmg loads of support but in my experience it's certainly not. The COR barely did anything beyond the fist initial roll (Warrior's Roll.. which I didn't even need). The line up didn't even include a RDM ffs. I picked Faust because it's generally considered difficult to tank due to the damage taken and shadow loss, I'm sorry if some self proclaimed experts disagree with this.

Do I deny that WAR/DNC requires more support? I certainly don't and I agree it would probably need a little bit more. But is the additional hate worth it? It sure seems like it to me. I have to agree with the above poster that SAM/DNC is probably the best job combination to exploit /DNC sub. Hell, you even get a free Ridill (Soboro) and maintain some form of mitigation (Third Eye, Seigan) which Warrior barely does. This is why I'm now going to go after using Shield Skill (Which warrior has the second highest in) because that's probably the only way it's going to work with few enough support to convince the masses.

PS: I really would like to see a WAR/anything else (With similar gear to what I was able to obtain.. Sure if you have full Koenig gear, Defending ring and such, I'm sure it's no problem as /RDM for instance.) tank this with 2WHM, BRD and COR (COR can't sub /WHM because mine wasn't). Do it and post a video.

PSS: Yeah, the video seems to be down, I'll find somewhere alternative to host it.

I tanked it War/Nin with my man and ridill and dd gear with whm brd blmx4. I have 6 manned it so easy on Nin/War and Nin/Drk etc etc, Faust hasn't been hard since 04.

[Celeal]

IMHO, when testing a new job combo, it has to start from somewhere. There is nothing wrong to bring *more* support for the first run, since the true potential is not fully known without trying. With more practice and experience, maybe WAR/DNC can pull it off with less support in the next run.

[Celeal]

In the exp. party ended a few hours ago, I was tanking as WAR/DNC in Caedarva Mire. It was level 68, exp. on Imps and Jnun.

This is the story: Originally the party was intended to be DD/nin TP burn, I was asked to be the 1st Provoke at each entry point of battle. The starting party setup was blu/nin (leader + puller), drk/nin, mnk/nin, war/nin (me), sch/whm, rdm/whm. After the first few fights, well... to sum it up, it was not really *burning* the mob. At the first downtime, I ofter to switch subjob and main tank, with either WAR/BLU or WAR/DNC. The party requested WAR/DNC.... so here we go~

Without using exp. ring, with Sanction alone I got 13k exp. points tanking as WAR/DNC, with three deaths (2 due to bad links/pop, 1 due to hard-hits in a row).

This is my first time tanking as WAR/DNC.. (geez.... and I haven't tank as WAR for many levels), and no one in the party have seen any WAR/DNC tank in exp. party before. It wasn't expected and prepared for WAR/DNC tanking, but the party was functional.

I tried different gear and food:
(1) Sole Sushi + Great Axe (I was using sushi when I was started with WAR/NIN).
(2) After 1st death I switched to Couerl Sub + Great Axe.
(3) After death Sole Sushi + Great Axe again.
(4) Half of party got wiped after the bad link. During downtime I ran to the AH and myself a Hard Shield (size 3), and Sole Sushi + Shield + Axe until party disbanded shortly (was getting tired).

My opinion is the effect of shield isn't noticable for my WAR/DNC. I was using Hard Shield (size 3) ---- there wasn't much choice for WAR at my level anyway.

I think Retaliation + Great Axe really wins. During the downtime after my 1st death, the DRK posted the parser damage output of the party ... I wasn't expecting it.... DRK 37%, MNK 25%, WAR 24%, BLU 10+%, SCH 3+%, RDM 0%.

Note: I was not using Beserk at all, and most of my TP goes to Curing Waltz II spamming in order for me to stay alive.

Unlike my PLD or NIN tank, which trying to hold hate was the focus, my WAR/DNC main focus was HP. It take the majority of the RDM's MP and SCH's MP to cure me. On the other hand, hate control really isn't an issue: I wasn't really trying, and I don't need to spam Provoke or Animated Flourish.

Drain Samba does not work on Jnun (Undead), and most of my TP is used on Curing Waltz II for tanking Jnun. For Imps, it is the Drain Samba and healers Cures when JA cannot be used. Cannot really use all the DNC's tool for each fight in Imps camp, not ideal for WAR/DNC imho.

Added: My normal DD setup is Great Axe + Attack food. But with WAR/DNC, I think I have easier time with sushi + G.Axe. My 1-hand axe skill is a bit behind (I had too much fun with WAR/SAM... Orz), at level 66 WAR skill cap.

P.S. --- 3 Retaliation in a row and Double Attack in between with Great Axe is so epic LOL.

[Lmnop]

Thanks. This shows the combo can at least be effective, albeit not an ideal tank. It's unfortunate that you went to the worst camp in the game to try out this combo. But it also shows that it was bearable even in the most anti-/dnc camp in the game (jnun trivializing what would be 20-30 hp drains/swing and imps sealing pretty much everything else you have to offer).

This makes me think it could work even in Colibri camps since, as you mentioned previously, if you're using TP you have less to lose from Feather Tickle.

That parser info also fuels my belief that Retaliation naysayers are subbing NIN too much to give it an honest review...

[Celeal]

I just finished a short party session with me tank as WAR/DNC. Half of the party members was from the same party last time I tanked as WAR/DNC. I guess I got re-invited

The party layout was:
DRK/NIN x2, DRK/SAM, RDM/WHM, SCH/RDM, WAR/DNC. Caedarva Mire Imps camp level 69 party.

Note:

Using G.Axe, Attack food, Defender and stack with Berserk (turn off when needed) helps this time. The DRK's stun and /nin shadows helped a lot too. We exp. mostly on Imps and Jnun, tried very few fly. Protect from mage is needed. Imps was safe for me to tank w/ or w/o Defender, depended on party resource. For Jnun, I could manage much better with Defender full time. The fly just too much risk for me to tank imho. We did a few fly okay, but I cannot handle the link (2 fly).

We had a few Imp linked occasion during the party, but we handled them smoothly.

It was a short party, disbanded after a bad link (3 files) --- Protect not even wore off when I got KO-ed. I started with level 69 w/ 2k tnl, ended at level 70 w/ 7.5k exp.

Not much WS from me. Most of my TP is used for /DNC JA. Drain Samba II really helped (after I leveled to 70). This time I need to use more Animated Flourish that last time, most likely because of using Defender.

The parser result parsed by one of the DRK in party: DRK 28%, DRK 26%, DRK 25%, WAR 21%.