[Lmnop]

This is mostly an extension of that other thread: leveling a Two Handed weapon using warrior and our derailing therein.

What is known:
buffs of the same "tier" don't only dispel their opposites, they completely override them giving full effect. I.e. Armor Break (-25% defense) and Cocoon(+50% defense). If a crawler with 100 defense used cocoon, he'd have 150 defense. If he then got nailed by armor break, he'd have 75 defense - not 125, not 112.5 - 75. In addition, Dispel would have no effect after that Armor Break landed because it completely removed the Cocoon effect. If he used Cocoon again, the Armor Break effect is gone, Cocoon is at full force, the Crawler has 150 defense again.
The thing we've been talking about recently is Full Break being tier 2. It's been assumed that a tier 2 not only dispels and overrides, it won't let a tier 1 effect take place. Thus, Full Break on a Crawler would not only Dispel and overwrite Cocoon, it'd make future Cocoon uses have no effect.

So the test results are in: it's not true.
My test was Robber crabs in Kuftal Tunnel. I got them to check low evasion, normal defense. when they used Scissor Guard (tier 1 defense boost), they checked high defense. Full Break returned them to normal defense.* When the same crab used Scissor Guard again, he was high defense once more.... So I shot him with an acid bolt and killed him.

Unless I somehow missed the message that his defense down effect wore off (in under 30 seconds, no less), I think this means that Full Break can't prevent buffing. Sad day for Great axe lovers like myself.

*Note that I'm 100% positive that Full Break made his defense down wear off and took full effect (as explained above). I simply didn't have enough attack to put him at low defense w/out screwing up the test.

Interesting trait of Full Break: It's 4 seperate debuffs. I bet if you used Full Break in Ballista, your target would see 4 icons at the top of their screen. Often, when fighting things that live a long time, you'll see one or more of it's debuffs wear off. For instance, you'll see attack down wear off, and then 60 seconds later you'll see evasion and defense down effects wear off. The Accuracy down effect is typically not the first to wear off. It may be placebo effect, but I wonder if the Acc debuff got tier 2, while the other 3 effects are tier 1.
Another thing is haste/slow relationship. Crawler slow is the lowest priority. Haste will overwrite it, and having Haste on you will make Slow have "no effect." Spider slow is Slow 2, meaning it'll not only overwrite Haste, but Haste will have "no effect" if cast on someone who's already spider-slowed.

What's interesting about this is CoP Spiders (Diremites) and I'd assume AU spiders, even though i've never killed them. What *I may have pulled out of my ass* about these spiders is that their Slow effect is apparently tier 1.5. It appears to work on a first-come-first-serve basis. I was Hasted, and they tried to slow me and it had "no effect." Later, I wasn't hasted and they slowed me. My brother cast Haste on me to remove it and he got "no effect." [i]For sure their slow is different in one regard or the other.

I don't know if that somehow applies to Full Break, but there certainly seems to be no 100% rule.
Constructive Criticism. Give it. I'm hoping that I'm wrong with my findings.

[Vyuru]

It would be interesting to know if Full Break is just one status ailment or multiple, we need someone to smack someone else with a Gaxe in Ballista!

What's interesting about these spiders is that their Slow effect is apparently tier 1.5. It appears to work on a first-come-first-serve basis.

I rarely fight Diremites so I'm not sure, but don't they have a different slow WS than spiders?

[Celeal]

When I tanked those Diremites as NIN in ToAU, its fan-area slow seems to overwrite Haste every single time. I can be wrong, but I have yet seen it fails to overwrite Haste.

[Armando]

Ah, many, many thanks. So that's how it is. I'd have to assume it's four separate debuffs, otherwise the overwriting wouldn't make sense. I really don't see "Defense Boost" overwriting an effect called "All Down" or something along those lines. I'm also fairly sure that there's no mob in the game with such a debuffs, and as far as I know all mobs that debuff multiple stats actually do stick multiple debuffs on you To test it you'd have to do the same test again, but after it overwrites Full Break with Cocoon you'd have to let it live for 2-3 minutes and see if you get any messages with the other stat downs wearing off.

Of course, that does beg the question...are they all tier 1 debuffs? Perhaps one Tier 2 debuff with three accompanying Tier 1's? Note that Accuracy Down is unique to Full Break; it's the only part of Full Break that wasn't on a previous break move. At this point the testing would get a little bit difficult without outside help. If we were to test the Accuracy Down (or Attack Down, for that matter) part of Full Break, there'd be no way to tell if the mob still has it or if it was overwritten, since (much to my dismay) we don't get /check messages along the lines of "It seems to have high accuracy/high attack." In order to test it, you'd need a helper that can toss out Dispel. If it lands, then Full Break was overwritten; if it fails, then Full Break prevented the buff from taking place.

Ack. After writing all that and pulling up my (really old) list of debuff tiers, I realized there's no classic mobs with +Accuracy. The only thing that comes to mind are Mamool Ja, but who knows what tier Warm Up is, and testing on those seems a bit...dangerous.

...

After half an hour of looking/babelfishing through Studio Gobli, I've found their Debuff Rank info, which is definetely more complete than the one I saw Apple Pie post way back when. I believe all our questions could be answered if someone could make heads or tails of this:

■フルブレイクの注意点

　以下のダウン効果系統の通り、
　Rank1であるシールドブレイクを撃ち 、
　効果発動を確認した後
　Rank2であるフルブレイクを撃つと
　シルブレよりも低い回避ダウン効� �で
　上書きされるので注意。

■ダウン効果系統

　→|１２３４(RankB)
　--+--------
　１|○○○○
　２|××○○
　３|××？○
　４|×××？
　(RankA)

　RankA→RankBへ上書き可能かどうか

Babelfish is sooooo not helping me on this one. That chart is supposed to represent how the different tiers overwrite each other (also, Full Break is STILL listed as Tier 2 for all its effects.) Source: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/old.html

While I was at it, I confirmed that fSTR can go negative.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Celeal

When I tanked those Diremites as NIN in ToAU, its fan-area slow seems to overwrite Haste every single time. I can be wrong, but I have yet seen it fails to overwrite Haste.

It's been a while and i've been putting off a place to post that finding. So maybe by the time I posted it, it was inaccurate. It'll be embarassing if so. Maybe I'm thinking of it backwards and they always overwrite each other. I know there's something about it that wasn't right. I think I'll go delete that section and replace it with tentative evidence.

It is perhaps possible that the AU Diremites have tier 2 slow while the CoP ones are floating in the middle. If their crawlers have fire in their stomach, then their Diremites can have thicker webs.

Also, I put spaces back in it. For some reason, when I checked this post today all my spaces between my sections were gone, so forgive me for the wall-o-text. Hopefully they'll still be there tomorrow...

Originally Posted by Armando

フルブレイクの注意点

... I'm not even gonna try

Originally Posted by Armando

While I was at it, I confirmed that fSTR can go negative.

hah.

Originally Posted by Vyuru

It would be interesting to know if Full Break is just one status ailment or multiple, we need someone to smack someone else with a Gaxe in Ballista!

Fenrir's stat buff gives 7 different icons, bad breath gives a plethora of negative status icons. My money's on Full Break giving 4 seperate icons (it actually means less work for S-E. What with not having to come up with an "all down" icon and all).

Originally Posted by Vyuru

I rarely fight Diremites so I'm not sure, but don't they have a different slow WS than spiders?

yeah, they're completely different species. Like Bees and Dragonflies - they're bugs. The similarity ends there.

[Vyuru]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando
フルブレイクの注意点

... I'm not even gonna try

Furubureiku (Full Break) no (Kanji, Impossible to Gauge!)


I can read some japanese, well, with my handy japanese dictionary I can read alot of japanese, but I hardly know any kanji, and I have a hard time with katakana sometimes, I mean seriously, isu for ice? Use the japanese word for ice! AHHHHHHHHH!!!

*ahem*

Fenrir's stat buff gives 7 different icons, bad breath gives a plethora of negative status icons. My money's on Full Break giving 4 seperate icons (it actually means less work for S-E. What with not having to come up with an "all down" icon and all).

Ah, I had forgotten about those, I rarely party with summoners sadly :/ And I only hunt mobs who use Bad Breath when I am high enough to not get hit by it.

In that case I'd agree, I bet that Full Break gives the mob a bunch of different status effects instead of just one.

[IfritnoItazura]

フルブレイクの注意点

Full Break's "attention points". Er, "important points". Heck, my inclination is translate that as "bullet points", but that phrase is a pointless business jargon...

[Celeal]

Finally got Full Break.

I was in a party at Mount Zhayolm as war/sam, used a lot of Full Break within 4 hours:
1. <me> uses Full Break, then Crawler uses Cocoon.... /check high Defense.
2. Crawler uses Cocoon, then <me> uses Full Break, /check high Defense.

Full Break does not really have much impact on Cocoon from VT~IT mob.

[Icemage]

This should be confirmable in Ballista with a WAR and a BLU, no? As far as I know, most blue magic spells use the same effects and calculations as their NPC version, aside from a few notable exceptions like Self-Destruct.


Icemage

[Armando]

Ballista testing sure is feasable but there's always the slight chance that they altered the mechanics simply because of players being able to use Boost, Berserk, Warcry, Dodge, Focus, Defender, etc. whereas most mobs can't. I think I tried overwriting a break with one of my JAs in Ballista once and it didn't work, I ended up with both. Still, some info is better than nothing