would fish kill my melee damage?

Lmnop · 10-24-2004, 11:41 PM

up til around the 40s, a war/mnk can (not always, just *can*) out tank a pld. It should be til level 37, but it usually takes them a little while to get used to using flash. In these levels, I sometimes wonder what would happen if the war tanked and the pld cure him. A war/mnk on fish does very well until plds get the hang of their jobs (if they ever do).

As for war/nin. I agree they're just Fake-Tanks. The hate tools just aren't there. Toss a bard into the picture, things change. This can happen as early as level 39 (battlefield elegy). With a bard, a war/nin just tanks better. But still can't hold hate as well as a pld or a war/mnk that magically got evade +1000. Meat does help this, but the damage a war/nin takes when he DOES get hit is just scarey when not on defense food. I don't like offensive tanking unless I have a good bard around but.... I prefer war/mnk.

Darkedge · 10-25-2004, 12:27 AM

As a War/Mnk, when invited to DD I'll try to steal hate as much as I can (w/o using provoke) just to keep PLD or NIN on their toes..granted I'm only level 24 right now, I've taken hate of PLDs as a subless MNK, cuz I care to spend a lot of gil on equipment.

Being the only tank in the party, I've noticed that TA THFs can take hate from me, if they TA before my second voke. Thats about it, or RNG if I chose not to boost/voke. 40-60 Damage from GAxe is nice.

I'll start leveling again after I kill my 2-3 dragon, so I'll learn more about War/Mnk tanking up to lvl 37.

Cri · 10-26-2004, 10:38 AM

Are you kidding me? War/nin are fake tanks? Umm...yeah you guys need to learn your stuff before you post. Emnimity+ gear. Viking axes...combat casters axes. Provoke defender war cry. I do 30 dmg to crawlers in cn with defender on(per hit..so thats 60 dmg with dual weild)(also count into effect that we have double attack which hits up to 4 times)... not only that this includes 200dmg regularly with avalanch axe. so please, dont assume that we cant tank. Not only that but you get awesome ws higher lvl that help a ton. Sorry if i sound rude, but thats just rediculous.

Unholy Prince · 10-26-2004, 11:56 AM

Sure war/nin is on decent tank, but war/mnk is better, heres why.

War/nin has very few hate keeping tools. Provoke, and DPS, isn't enough. Warcry maybe if your in a jam. When rngs start doing sidewinder every fight, thats not gonna hold. As a blm, even after second voke i pull hate off with a tier 3 spell, unless at the very end of the fight. Even after a SATA Dancing Edge. Perhaps i've been with some subpar war/nins, but the ones i've been with have had good gear, opened with Rampage every fight, used food etc, and still couldn't keep hate better then the war/mnks i've been with.

Also, when the war/nin runs out of shadows, your def and eva is so low your gonna get hit for A LOT. Unless you have a good blm or drk who know your playstyle(static party for example), but you don't get many of those in pickups. The MP you save with your few shadows is nullified by the massive amount of damage taken once the shadows are down, many times more is used. Of course this all changes at 74, but by then, its not as important.

As a blm, of course i'm biased to plds, but my 2nd choice in tank would be a war/mnk, and a lot of my friends at similar and higher lvls agree.

Cri · 10-26-2004, 04:37 PM

No no, i wasnt saying they were better than war/mnk. I was just saying that they arnt a FAKE tank. Im not sure, i havent been in a party in which the rangers/blms and other dd's have taken hate away from me. I still think they are very good at tanking. The mob misses the first 6 or more hits against it++, slap on defender. But w/e i dont want to argue. I think with the right person, they could be as good as any paladin or ninja out there. I just want some awknowledgement that war/nin are good and not just some stupid replacement for a pal.

Lmnop · 10-27-2004, 04:41 PM

fake-tank is what I call them, and yet I tank as war/nin.

What I mean to say is, they just work a lot differently than a normal tank. I need someone to stun, flash, elegy, etc. the mob if I wanna continue to NOT take 100 dmg/swing. War/mnk just takes a beating, uses defense food and uses defender if needed.

You wanna true fake-tank? invite a war/pld. Makes you wanna vomit.

dirtyclown · 10-27-2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ungerpurr
War/mnk can get away with fish, defender, etc., and still hold aggro more reliably than any pld up to at least level 37. War/nin on the other hand, needs meat to hold aggro. Don't underestimate the power of boost as an aggro-holding tool.

i use Boost whenever it's up. the night i lvled warrior a bunch we were getting "assisted" by a high lvl white mage. the mobs only turned to her when i let them. that convinces me completely that boost is an excellent hate tool.

kuroitsuru · 10-28-2004, 01:05 AM

Boost is your hate tool =P, you get it every 15 seconds which is awesome.

You also get the evasion up skill and the accuracy up skills from war and monk.

And when you get to AF level, think about how that +8 emnity from the body piece is gonna work with a boost every 15 seconds, I mean jeez.

/mnk makes war extremely accurate, enough to make the need for snipers non existant for tanking purposes.

What's great is if you use a great axe, you can supply your party with the break weaponskills, full break in particular, which I've heard helps out a lot through the course of a fight when used at the start.

That's all I can think of right now.

edit: I looked it up out of curiosity and war gets something like +15 emnity in full AF, I know youll be replacing a lot of it for better def gear, but I think most wars will use the pants and body to tank with, so theres +10 emnity right there, 3 for hands, and 1 for each head and feet.

I play pld, and so that +15 emnity makes me jealous, we get +8 total from our AF, I guess on the upside, we can wear our entire AF and its pretty much the best until 73.

greysenn · 10-28-2004, 07:35 AM

Quote:

War/mnk can get away with fish, defender, etc., and still hold aggro more reliably than any pld up to at least level 37. War/nin on the other hand, needs meat to hold aggro. Don't underestimate the power of boost as an aggro-holding tool.

For war/mnk I think defender is generally trash for xp groups unless you've just got so much hate built up you can hold aggro reguardless. Boost hate is nice, but another large portion of your hate comes from straight up damage, and defender outright cripples it.

10-25-2004, 12:27 AM	#17
Darkedge Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 341 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	As a War/Mnk, when invited to DD I'll try to steal hate as much as I can (w/o using provoke) just to keep PLD or NIN on their toes..granted I'm only level 24 right now, I've taken hate of PLDs as a subless MNK, cuz I care to spend a lot of gil on equipment. Being the only tank in the party, I've noticed that TA THFs can take hate from me, if they TA before my second voke. Thats about it, or RNG if I chose not to boost/voke. 40-60 Damage from GAxe is nice. I'll start leveling again after I kill my 2-3 dragon, so I'll learn more about War/Mnk tanking up to lvl 37. __________________ There is no knowledge without experience. San dOria Rank4 \\ 30 WAR \| 19 MNK \| 14 RDM \| 8 WHM \| 13 BLM \| 13 THF \| 5 DRK \| 10 RNG // Goldsmithing 10 Windurst Rank4 // 46 WHM \| 26 BLM \| 20 RDM \| 18 WAR \\ Alchemy 11 \| Fishing 8

10-28-2004, 01:05 AM	#23
kuroitsuru Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 31 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Boost is your hate tool =P, you get it every 15 seconds which is awesome. You also get the evasion up skill and the accuracy up skills from war and monk. And when you get to AF level, think about how that +8 emnity from the body piece is gonna work with a boost every 15 seconds, I mean jeez. /mnk makes war extremely accurate, enough to make the need for snipers non existant for tanking purposes. What's great is if you use a great axe, you can supply your party with the break weaponskills, full break in particular, which I've heard helps out a lot through the course of a fight when used at the start. That's all I can think of right now. edit: I looked it up out of curiosity and war gets something like +15 emnity in full AF, I know youll be replacing a lot of it for better def gear, but I think most wars will use the pants and body to tank with, so theres +10 emnity right there, 3 for hands, and 1 for each head and feet. I play pld, and so that +15 emnity makes me jealous, we get +8 total from our AF, I guess on the upside, we can wear our entire AF and its pretty much the best until 73. __________________ PLD 55 DRG 34 WAR 33 THF 60 NIN 21 RNG 34 SAM 10 MNK 18 WHM 32 BLM 25 DRK 4 all jobs unlocked, all others level 1

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10-24-2004, 11:41 PM	#16
Lmnop Dictionary Allied Ribbon of Glory Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Warrior Posts: 2,038 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 247 Thanked 377x in 234 Posts My Mood:	up til around the 40s, a war/mnk can (not always, just can) out tank a pld. It should be til level 37, but it usually takes them a little while to get used to using flash. In these levels, I sometimes wonder what would happen if the war tanked and the pld cure him. A war/mnk on fish does very well until plds get the hang of their jobs (if they ever do). As for war/nin. I agree they're just Fake-Tanks. The hate tools just aren't there. Toss a bard into the picture, things change. This can happen as early as level 39 (battlefield elegy). With a bard, a war/nin just tanks better. But still can't hold hate as well as a pld or a war/mnk that magically got evade +1000. Meat does help this, but the damage a war/nin takes when he DOES get hit is just scarey when not on defense food. I don't like offensive tanking unless I have a good bard around but.... I prefer war/mnk.

10-26-2004, 10:38 AM	#18
Cri Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 107 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Are you kidding me? War/nin are fake tanks? Umm...yeah you guys need to learn your stuff before you post. Emnimity+ gear. Viking axes...combat casters axes. Provoke defender war cry. I do 30 dmg to crawlers in cn with defender on(per hit..so thats 60 dmg with dual weild)(also count into effect that we have double attack which hits up to 4 times)... not only that this includes 200dmg regularly with avalanch axe. so please, dont assume that we cant tank. Not only that but you get awesome ws higher lvl that help a ton. Sorry if i sound rude, but thats just rediculous.

10-26-2004, 11:56 AM	#19
Unholy Prince Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 50 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	Sure war/nin is on decent tank, but war/mnk is better, heres why. War/nin has very few hate keeping tools. Provoke, and DPS, isn't enough. Warcry maybe if your in a jam. When rngs start doing sidewinder every fight, thats not gonna hold. As a blm, even after second voke i pull hate off with a tier 3 spell, unless at the very end of the fight. Even after a SATA Dancing Edge. Perhaps i've been with some subpar war/nins, but the ones i've been with have had good gear, opened with Rampage every fight, used food etc, and still couldn't keep hate better then the war/mnks i've been with. Also, when the war/nin runs out of shadows, your def and eva is so low your gonna get hit for A LOT. Unless you have a good blm or drk who know your playstyle(static party for example), but you don't get many of those in pickups. The MP you save with your few shadows is nullified by the massive amount of damage taken once the shadows are down, many times more is used. Of course this all changes at 74, but by then, its not as important. As a blm, of course i'm biased to plds, but my 2nd choice in tank would be a war/mnk, and a lot of my friends at similar and higher lvls agree.

10-26-2004, 04:37 PM	#20
Cri Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 107 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 Posts	No no, i wasnt saying they were better than war/mnk. I was just saying that they arnt a FAKE tank. Im not sure, i havent been in a party in which the rangers/blms and other dd's have taken hate away from me. I still think they are very good at tanking. The mob misses the first 6 or more hits against it++, slap on defender. But w/e i dont want to argue. I think with the right person, they could be as good as any paladin or ninja out there. I just want some awknowledgement that war/nin are good and not just some stupid replacement for a pal.

10-27-2004, 04:41 PM	#21
Lmnop Dictionary Allied Ribbon of Glory Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Warrior Posts: 2,038 Style: Light Theme V7 Thanks: 247 Thanked 377x in 234 Posts My Mood:	fake-tank is what I call them, and yet I tank as war/nin. What I mean to say is, they just work a lot differently than a normal tank. I need someone to stun, flash, elegy, etc. the mob if I wanna continue to NOT take 100 dmg/swing. War/mnk just takes a beating, uses defense food and uses defender if needed. You wanna true fake-tank? invite a war/pld. Makes you wanna vomit.