Video Game Industry Slump

[Aeni]

Like I said, we need a fair balance of worker protections and the welfare of the companies the workers work for. It's egregious for an entire industry, for example, to collude on worker wages and then sign off on an unspoken "non-recruitment policies" where they refrain from poaching each others talents in order to stifle wages and costs associated with that. It's also egregious when worker protections get so out of bounds that you can't fire a teacher who just sits in class all day and watches his Watchman while the kids would just fuck around (true story, happened to my younger brother in high school)

[Yellow Mage]

Wow, I didn't expect this forum to actually have a divided opinion concerning unions. That's actually quite interesting.

Personally, I'm in the "unions had their time and place and are now overstaying their welcomes" boat. Granted, I understand that's an overgeneralization over a multi-faceted issue that varies from situation to situation, but business owners are undeniably taking their money overseas . . .

At the very least, unions should be given the same regulations as any other corporation, as they are essentially corporations that sell labor.

[Aeni]

Wow, I didn't expect this forum to actually have a divided opinion concerning unions. That's actually quite interesting.

Personally, I'm in the "unions had their time and place and are now overstaying their welcomes" boat. Granted, I understand that's an overgeneralization over a multi-faceted issue that varies from situation to situation, but business owners are undeniably taking their money overseas . . .

At the very least, unions should be given the same regulations as any other corporation, as they are essentially corporations that sell labor.

In some industries, Unions are still needed (albeit not nearly as needed as they were 60 years ago), but that's neither here nor there. I agree that Union have gotten too entrenched in government (i.e., local unions at the city, county and state levels) but even if we had no unions, the companies in this country would still ship their jobs overseas. You have to admit, paying a Chinese worker $5 a week to do the same job that an American would do for minimum wage is a huge cost saving and you don't need to provided for healthcare, dental or even a 401K.

[Malacite]

Unions are hardly the driving force behind outsourcing. A symptom perhaps, but the real reasons are cheap labor and taxes.

[Feba]

saw a business magazine today with a headline that would translate to roughly "Old and busted: Chinese manufacturing. New hotness: American manufacturing!"

Didn't read much of the contents, but there was a mention that America was "returning to the American Dream"


I was very confused.

[Firewind]

I wish it was that hard to be dismissed in the UK. Our government recently changed the law so you have to have worked for your employer for at least one year if you started working for your employer before 6 April 2012 or two years if you started on or after 6 April 2012.

Basically every single person in the UK that has started a new job since late 2011 to 2012 is now George Jetson.

Also getting rid of unions is a pretty idiotic idea as there will not be anyone that employers can be held accountable to, and there will be very few organisations out there that not only look out for the interests of workers but also keep employers informed of employment law.

I've no idea how it is in the US but in the UK a lot of employers were too selfish to pay severance and would often harass employees into either quitting or murdering their own coworkers. Well until this year when you can do a perfect job for 2 years but can be fired for literally anything and not be able to do anything about it.

Apparently this is supposed to fix our economy and make it easier to fire bad employees. In reality people just get fired because they are coming to the end of the period where they can be fired for anything and the employer is too greedy to continue paying them to save money. But as long as it helps the economy it's great right? Who cares if more people are being made unemployed and therefore have less money to contribute to the economy via taxation and consuming as long as it fixes it right?

Oh wait

Honestly I'm waiting for someone to invade us to we can be rid of the fucktards in Westminster. Come on US, you want a new state right?

[Malacite]

Yeah Canada's recently wisened up to that level of nonsense.

The CRA for example (our tax guys) recently stopped all permanent hiring. Contracts only, that can be extended or shortened or even terminated at any point.

[Aeni]

saw a business magazine today with a headline that would translate to roughly "Old and busted: Chinese manufacturing. New hotness: American manufacturing!"

Didn't read much of the contents, but there was a mention that America was "returning to the American Dream"


I was very confused.

I think it might've been regarding documented and undocumented workers in the US being treated and paid very much like Chinese workers ... with threat of violence and/or legal methods (e.g., deportation) But, from the stories I've read recently, including several investigations conducted by award winning journalists, even American citizens (i.e., rural white workers) are now facing the same kind of mistreatment and hard conditions, especially since Unions have all but disappeared from those industries negatively impacted by the down economy.

[Firewind]

Yeah Canada's recently wisened up to that level of nonsense.

The CRA for example (our tax guys) recently stopped all permanent hiring. Contracts only, that can be extended or shortened or even terminated at any point.

How is this a good thing?

[Malacite]

Having worked in the govt, I can honestly say there really are a lot of people with tenure that do little to nothing and get paid obscene amounts of money for it - and they don't even need anything higher than a highschool education!

[Firewind]

So making everyone easy to fire improves that? That's like treating a sprained ankle by cutting off your leg. Or [insert anti DRM joke here]

That is basically what they have done in the UK. No matter how good you are at your job you can still be fired for no reason (as long as it's not due to some form of discrimination). All it's done is made people stop caring about performance because, well what's the point? You can be fired for acting like the model employee and being awesome at your job just because your boss doesn't like you. But that who who is terrible at his job and acts like a dick to everyone gets to stay because the boss likes him.

[cidbahamut]

So making everyone easy to fire improves that? That's like treating a sprained ankle by cutting off your leg. Or [insert anti DRM joke here]

That is basically what they have done in the UK. No matter how good you are at your job you can still be fired for no reason (as long as it's not due to some form of discrimination). All it's done is made people stop caring about performance because, well what's the point? You can be fired for acting like the model employee and being awesome at your job just because your boss doesn't like you. But that who who is terrible at his job and acts like a dick to everyone gets to stay because the boss likes him.

And yet people want to get rid of unions while shit like this is going on...

[Mezlo]

So making everyone easy to fire improves that? That's like treating a sprained ankle by cutting off your leg. Or [insert anti DRM joke here]

That is basically what they have done in the UK. No matter how good you are at your job you can still be fired for no reason (as long as it's not due to some form of discrimination). All it's done is made people stop caring about performance because, well what's the point? You can be fired for acting like the model employee and being awesome at your job just because your boss doesn't like you. But that who who is terrible at his job and acts like a dick to everyone gets to stay because the boss likes him.

If this is actually the case, this is a horribly structured company. In a properly structured, capatalistic company, anyone that is good at their job would not get fired because everyone involved that gets compensated on how profitable the company is, which should at least be every "manager," wants whats best to make the company as profitable as possible since their compensation is directly affected. In the case you sited, it seems like alot of hourly associates, or associates that don't get compensated based upon the companies profitability.

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And yet people want to get rid of unions while shit like this is going on...

And yes, nowadays in the US I don't see a need for unions...

[Malacite]

So making everyone easy to fire improves that? That's like treating a sprained ankle by cutting off your leg. Or [insert anti DRM joke here]

That is basically what they have done in the UK. No matter how good you are at your job you can still be fired for no reason (as long as it's not due to some form of discrimination). All it's done is made people stop caring about performance because, well what's the point? You can be fired for acting like the model employee and being awesome at your job just because your boss doesn't like you. But that who who is terrible at his job and acts like a dick to everyone gets to stay because the boss likes him.

Oh no, they can't just sack you for no reason - just that it can happen at any time if your performance is too low or there's an infraction etc etc...

Too bad we can't sack all the do-nothing members of parliament & the senate...

[Feba]

I think it might've been regarding documented and undocumented workers in the US being treated and paid very much like Chinese workers ... with threat of violence and/or legal methods (e.g., deportation) But, from the stories I've read recently, including several investigations conducted by award winning journalists, even American citizens (i.e., rural white workers) are now facing the same kind of mistreatment and hard conditions, especially since Unions have all but disappeared from those industries negatively impacted by the down economy.

I don't think so. They were speaking of it as if American manufacturing was a huge improvement over Chinese manufacturing, not an "America is a shithole" thing. It was Pro-America.