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    Thread: The E3 2011 thread

    1. #241
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      I personally think the whole idea behind the Wii U is broken if we can't use multiple screen-controllers per system. So many opportunities will be wasted without that capability. I wonder what the reasoning is? Does the system not have the processing power required to display 4 lower-res screens at once (in addition to the TV)? If processing power is their only limitation, then, considering Nintendo's history of putting local multiplayer as one of their top priorities, it confuses me as to why they aren't fixing it. Surely the addition of enough processing power to run at least two tablets at once would be worth the cost, considering their usual emphasis on local multiplayer.

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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      WTF is up with the little pirate girl on the PS3 version anyway? And I saw gameplay with Flynn instead of Yuri... is that just a DLC/extra costume for Yuri? Otherwise that's a MAJOR change to the game's plot.


      EDIT: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/13/si...ed-homecoming/


      Visually, at least, Downpour appears to be on par with Homecoming, the most recent Silent Hill to grace the Xbox 360 and PS3; however, Downpour marks the first time the series has adopted the Unreal Engine. I'd say the game still needs some optimization -- I noticed some bad texture fade-in and a few missing effects -- but the engine is more than capable of rendering Silent Hill's trademark gloom.

      Last edited by Malacite; 06-13-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Cheezeman3000 View Post
      I personally think the whole idea behind the Wii U is broken if we can't use multiple screen-controllers per system. So many opportunities will be wasted without that capability. I wonder what the reasoning is? Does the system not have the processing power required to display 4 lower-res screens at once (in addition to the TV)? If processing power is their only limitation, then, considering Nintendo's history of putting local multiplayer as one of their top priorities, it confuses me as to why they aren't fixing it. Surely the addition of enough processing power to run at least two tablets at once would be worth the cost, considering their usual emphasis on local multiplayer.

      Sometimes, you confuse me Nintendo.
      I don't see what's confusing here, you're just assuming all things must be symmetrical which is untrue of most of the games you play and mostly only true for multiplayer. Sometimes not even then

      The dealer is an active participant in Blackjack, but he does not make bets - you do that and you're playing against him just as much as anyone else at the table. When you do a tabletop/pen-and-paper RPG you have the DM and you have the players. The DM is playing, too, but he's not playing the same way you're playing. Nor is the catcher on a baseball field - he can't suddenly be the outfielder. The commander of a military strike isn't fighting on the frontlines. And the kid that's "it" in hide-n-seek has to hide while the others are looking for hime.

      When you play Halo, yes, pretty much everyone is subject to the same or similar conditions, just like Mario Kart puts everyone under the same rules even if their characters have a slightly different balance.

      If Nintendo were to make a game where one player is the dungeon master - why would everyone need the same controller the DM has. He's not subject to the same rules. If its a game of hide-and-seek, the controller would give a tactical advantage to the guy that's it - much moreso than if he was hiding on a split-screen where everyone can see him or is honor-bound to pretend they're not looking at his corner of the screen.

      So no, I don't think ever home multiplayer game requires everyone to have the tablet. Since Wiimotes are something everyone else could have only the player engaged in an asymmetrical role would need the Wii U tablet.

      Damn, now I want someone to make a tabletop style RPG for this thing. Just imagine the ease of building levels and monster-placement on a touch-screen - on-the-fly, even. You could build the scenarios in real-time as other people played.

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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
      Damn, now I want someone to make a tabletop style RPG for this thing. Just imagine the ease of building levels and monster-placement on a touch-screen - on-the-fly, even. You could build the scenarios in real-time as other people played.
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
      I don't see what's confusing here, you're just assuming all things must be symmetrical which is untrue of most of the games you play and mostly only true for multiplayer.
      The big problem with asymmetric gameplay is that it's tough to balance. And you would generally only use it for multiplayer since it does sort of presuppose more than 1 player. >_>

      That said, sometimes asymmetric works (Giants: Citizen Kabuto, Starcraft). But the broken trail of horribly uninteresting asymmetric multiplayer games is quite long (Super Mario Galaxy's 2nd player Wiimote comes immediately to mind, Haze is a good example of asymmetric FPS, Dune 2000 would be my poster child for poor RTS asymmetry, etc.)

      Damn, now I want someone to make a tabletop style RPG for this thing. Just imagine the ease of building levels and monster-placement on a touch-screen - on-the-fly, even. You could build the scenarios in real-time as other people played.
      Making campaigns on-the-fly is pretty much a pipe dream The closest tool I've seen for something like this is the DM Toolkit for iOS, and even that doesn't alleviate all the horrendous number-crunching.

      Generally speaking, if you're running a pen and paper role playing game, you should be busy with presentation, not world-building during a session. For a more RPG-lite computerized sort of game played in real time, you run a serious risk of same-old-same-old because of a limited box of tools (see: Neverwinter Nights).


      Icemage

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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
      WTF is up with the little pirate girl on the PS3 version anyway? And I saw gameplay with Flynn instead of Yuri... is that just a DLC/extra costume for Yuri? Otherwise that's a MAJOR change to the game's plot.
      Both Flynn and the Patty (the pirate girl) are playable party members in the PS3 version. I'm horrible at reading kanji and katakana, but the plot changes slightly to put them in but nothing major is changed overall.

      Oh and if you love "Blah, blah, blah, Tidal Wave!" Try using Estelle in the arena. If you thought that Rita was OP, you have seen nothing until you have seen what is essentially a White mage that can make herself immune to all damage and spam Holy-ga on every enemy on the screen continuously until you need to use another limit bottle. Rita can actually be killed, Estelle simply can't even in standard battles unless you are horrible at the game.
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    10. #247
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Firewind View Post
      Both Flynn and the Patty (the pirate girl) are playable party members in the PS3 version. I'm horrible at reading kanji and katakana, but the plot changes slightly to put them in but nothing major is changed overall.
      How the hell does that work though?

      Making Flynn playable changes the plot quite a bit...


      And I'm assuming you mean Holy Rain? I tried doing Estelle's 100-man last night, and omfg talk about aggravating. I lost to Droite & Gauche, though I didn't really know what I was doing XD - I've been using Yuri the entire time (I'm on my 1st playthrough still, doing as much as I can before I do a completionist run next) so it was freaking awkward as hell trying to figure out what arts to set and chain together as Judith. I still managed to win as both Judy & Yuri though since I was basically taking 0~1 damage from everything ROFL.


      <.< also I don't actually like that phrase in my sig XD it's just more of a tribute to Rita than anything. Tidal Wave is a bitching spell but holy fuck it just gets annoying after spending so much time grade farming doing 10 minute battles at a time and hearing nothing but "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!" over & over & over >_>b
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      The big problem with asymmetric gameplay is that it's tough to balance. And you would generally only use it for multiplayer since it does sort of presuppose more than 1 player. >_>
      Mindjack agrees.
      Demon's Souls disagrees.

      The fact of the matter is that few developers try to push asymmetric play outside of the known conventions. A decade old game like Neverwinter Nights didn't have a separate touch interface and there's nothing stopping such a game from letting a DM create the dungeons/secrets/puzzles in advance and allow them to place enemies or enhance traps on the fly and scale that based on the skill of the players.

      Demon Souls only has one mode - killing you. Doesn't much matter if its an NPC or some phantom player. Seems cruel to let some players jump you in your game, but they're laced with limitation regarding how often they could do it and its only a worthwhile venture if they can win. They can only pick on other players their level, after all.

      But let's think of it in terms of something like Zelda Four Swords.

      All you'd have to really do is balance the abilities of the DM with that of the players he's challenging. Wouldn't be right for a DM to just plop down a high end monster that could kill the other players if they didn't have the right item, you'd have to build the level with that item to defeat it or the fight just doesn't work.

      And there's nothing to say you couldn't just pre-make the dungeon and do monster placement or enhance traps on the fly while your dungeon crawlers were making their way through. You'd be able to see their progress in real-time on your screen.

      Its something that could stand to be explored more deeply. Just because its not perfect or its been done on PC doesn't mean its been fully explored and certainly not on the level of consoles or non-LAN/online play. I can think of a few developers that could make great use of such a tool.
      Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 06-14-2011 at 10:56 AM.

    12. #249
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread



      very informative, mew!

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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Great ideas, and I agree, asymmetric gameplay is just fine and dandy, but I still feel like they're limiting themselves (and totally going against their historical preference for local multiplayer) by not including at least the option for symmetric gameplay as well. A classic example of the extra options this provides can be seen in sports games, where you can hide which plays you've picked (or what type of pitch you've thrown) from the other people in the room, and other examples can be seen in the original Four Swords and Crystal Chronicles games which required each player to have their own view of the action... while playing in the same room as everyone else.

      In the end, I dunno, I mean, I'm sure the system will be great even if it's limited to just one tablet, but I still feel that there will be so many missed opportunities...

      On another note, we can all breathe easy, apparently it can run Crysis. Lol: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/w...ul-than-ps3-a/
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
      How the hell does that work though?

      Making Flynn playable changes the plot quite a bit...


      And I'm assuming you mean Holy Rain? I tried doing Estelle's 100-man last night, and omfg talk about aggravating. I lost to Droite & Gauche, though I didn't really know what I was doing XD - I've been using Yuri the entire time (I'm on my 1st playthrough still, doing as much as I can before I do a completionist run next) so it was freaking awkward as hell trying to figure out what arts to set and chain together as Judith. I still managed to win as both Judy & Yuri though since I was basically taking 0~1 damage from everything ROFL.

      <.< also I don't actually like that phrase in my sig XD it's just more of a tribute to Rita than anything. Tidal Wave is a bitching spell but holy fuck it just gets annoying after spending so much time grade farming doing 10 minute battles at a time and hearing nothing but "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!" over & over & over >_>b
      Flynn doesn't actually join you until later on and it's at a point of the game where him joining your party would make very good sense since you're off trying to stop Not!Sephiroth from killing everyone.

      And to be honest Yuri's a game breaker anyway. He can clear his 200 man as fast as Rite and Estelle can clear theirs. Having an infinite combo doesn't hurt him either.

      Droite & Gauche are pretty much what causes wipes and it's why you really need to be spamming your Force Field hotkey as soon as they appear. Estelle does have the advantage of being the best blood tank in the game though so she should at least be able to get enough spells off. The Twins are a massive pain for interrupting you though they aren't that much tougher than their boss fight.

      And you should try the Gold Cat spam. "Meow! Gold Cat!" Meow, meow, meow! Gold Cat!"
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      I beat it with Estelle on my 2nd go, had a much stronger set up 2nd time around.

      OL + Holy Rain spam, with Extra Combo 1~3 + Marching Waltz on bosses since spells take too long (though I just spammed Holy Rain in OL vs Gauche & Droite, was funny)


      I'm getting creamed as Rita though, keep getting interupted/stunned/knocked down during the god damn boss fights, which kills my OL thus killing my ability to spam tidal wave and keep them stunned -_-'


      Doesn't help that Rita has shit for defense either - With Estelle I could basically spam magic with 10+ mobs hitting me, but not with Rita.

      Quote Originally Posted by Firewind View Post
      And you should try the Gold Cat spam. "Meow! Gold Cat!" Meow, meow, meow! Gold Cat!"
      o. O ?
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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      mew! exciting!


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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      Quote Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
      I beat it with Estelle on my 2nd go, had a much stronger set up 2nd time around.

      OL + Holy Rain spam, with Extra Combo 1~3 + Marching Waltz on bosses since spells take too long (though I just spammed Holy Rain in OL vs Gauche & Droite, was funny)


      I'm getting creamed as Rita though, keep getting interupted/stunned/knocked down during the god damn boss fights, which kills my OL thus killing my ability to spam tidal wave and keep them stunned -_-'


      Doesn't help that Rita has shit for defense either - With Estelle I could basically spam magic with 10+ mobs hitting me, but not with Rita.



      o. O ?
      Gold Cat is an Altered Arte. Its not bad, but its no Tidal Wave.

      Hmm, wish I could help with Rita 200 man, but its been so long since I played. I really don't really recall having any problems until Barbados and even then, it was never really too much of an issue.

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      Re: The E3 2011 thread

      I don't have access to the 200-man, haven't done the EX dungeon yet.

      I DID beat the last boss, but I had to re-load my save because I hadn't gotten the 2 scenes on Ba'ul & Aurnion for the Fel Weapons, so I didn't face his 3rd form.

      That's why I been doing the 100-man battles etc (also to kill time while waiting for Aurnion to finish building, seriously wtf it's been like 5 hours since I finished the 3rd part).

      I managed to beat Rita's part too. Both her & Raven's were rather stressful, mostly because of multiple instances where the enemies simply will not fuck off and stun-lock you with repeated attacks before you can even get back up. Such BS...

      I even lost a full OL instance with Gauche & Draute because of 1 stupid attack right after I popped it that ended up taking up the entire meter's time before I got back on my feet.

      Love how enemies can just jank you like that mid-combo but you can't do it to them (crazy shit like Yuri's infinite aside)
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