[Armando]

Nintendo teams with Masahiro Sakurai for new project (andriasang.com blog, 02.18.2009)

Last time these two worked on something together, the result was Super Smash Bros. Not much info out yet but it's interesting that after the failure that Brawl was in terms of competitive gameplay, they go and say that this game will satisfy even hardcore gamers.

[Feba]

I think it's pretty arrogant to assume that "hardcore" means "competitive, tournament level gamers".

FFXI is inarguably a hardcore game, but very very few of us have the ability, means, or desire to do things at the level of the Ballista Royale.

Brawl was very much successful with hardcore gamers. The biggest complaint was SSE being repetitive and drawn out. After that, people wanting moar characters. Various issues of mechanics and balance might be a problem with the tournament scene, but most people, even hardcore gamers, will never bother becoming skilled enough at it where things like that even come up, let alone to the degree that it's a problem.

Nintendo could release "Brawl X" with a couple of flaws ironed out, a couple new stages and characters, and it would do fine.

[Armando]

Mmm. I don't know. I guess it depends how you define a hardcore gamer. To me it's someone that strives to play the game as best as possible - regardless of whether he gets involved in the competitive scene. I guess you might see it more as one of those 100% completion kinda players? In the case of Brawl, one hits a plateau quite soon because it's impossible to combo any opponent. Someone seeking to become good at Brawl will find their growth stopping pretty much immediately after mastering the basic concepts. That's not my idea of catering to the hardcore.

Obviously just because a game leaves room for those who want to play at a higher level, that doesn't mean it's casual player-unfriendly. But Brawl kinda went casual-only. That gets pretty tiresome after a while.

[Feba]

The problem is that you're not using the same definition that everyone else is.

"Hardcore" is a contrast to "Casual"; something is hardcore by the nature of not being 'casual'.

Casual being games which are aimed at markets that do not traditionally play games-- titles which have more in common (or are) old pen and paper games like crosswords, word search, sudoku, etc. Aiming at older people, people with low or no reaction times. Games that are designed to be played for pure fun, without putting up a challenge of much of any sort. Basically, games aimed at your mom.

Hardcore has never meant more than normal gamers; it's meant normal gamers. The sort of people who play RPGs, FPS, TBS, RTS, PS2, N64, and all of the other three letter acronyms.


Basically it's like racism. I know who is "us" and who is "them", but you can't really set a clear and logical barrier (not that that keeps people from trying, what with percentage heritage laws and the like).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

A hardcore gamer is exactly what Armando described - someone who plays a game with the intention mastering it at various levels.

Thing is, "hardcore" has been watered down since the Playstation era began. Some people think buying every new game that comes out just so they can feel included in a conversation makes them "hardcore," no, that's just an alpha consumer keeping up with the pack.

Others think the act of simply playing video games makes them a hardcore gamer.

Apparently everyone is a hardcore gamer, all by completely different definitions and not the real one. The real one was coined back when this was a nerd hobby, that's the one I'm still going by.

Back to the subject at hand, there was a rumors coming out of the SSBB Twitter the other week when a poster only identifying himself as "The Tophatted Professor" that he had been invited to a competition to face off against a blue robot and a tiny boxer. This "professor" wrote in a manner that was identical to the Professor Layton character.

Sounds like there's another Smash Brothers in the works and that Professor Layton, Mega Man and Little Mac may be joining the fray.

[Icemage]

Another Super Smash Brothers (maybe)? Nintendo's going to have to work pretty hard to convince me to buy another SSB game for my Wii - the last one was rather underwhelming and left a rather bitter taste in my mouth.

My guess is that Nintendo has Sakurai working on something to launch with a retooled Wii - a Wii 2 or Wii HD or whatever.


Icemage

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Apparently everyone is a hardcore gamer, all by completely different definitions and not the real one. The real one was coined back when this was a nerd hobby, that's the one I'm still going by.

VG Cats - Error 404, Update does not exist

Seems appropriate.

[admx9]

My only problem with the game was how bad they f'd up ganondorf and the addition of specials. Other than that 5 stock no items or specials on final destination all day anyday. Smash Brothers is my second most played game next to ffxi, i meet ups with 8-10 friends once or twice a week and brawl it out. Great game.

[Armando]

Regardless of the definition of preference...Brawl bombed pretty damned hard at a gameplay level. It was stripped of everything that made the previous two good, resulting in just about the most watered down version possible, while being less balanced than Melee was. It had a lot more content in every other area, but the gameplay didn't deliver. So the comment about catering to the "hardcore" still piques my interest.

I would be shocked if the new title is another Smash Bros game though. Brawl was released just last year and there was a 7 year gap between Melee and Brawl. If it IS a SSB4, though, they're going to have to up the ante considerably to make the gameplay as engaging as Melee's and Brawl+'s. I just want good gameplay; I don't want to be constantly playing the last iteration of the series because the most recent one was worse.

And you better be right about Mega Man after posting that, BBQ, or I'm going to punch several domestic animals if SSB4 doesn't have him. But I'm really not gonna get my hopes up about this being SSB4.

[admx9]

I think they should make downloadable characters, I dont care if I have to pay for them.OR atleast give Mewtwo and Dr. Mario back. If anything the game can be fixed through downloadble patches if they dont plan on releasing the next game anytime soon.

[Tickmeoff]

Come on Sakurai, do it right this time.

No more Star Fox characters or Landmasters.

[Feba]

Originally Posted by admx9

If anything the game can be fixed through downloadble patches

Not with the technology the Wii has now, from everything we've seen so far. Nintendo could try to work in the technology homebrew is using, but good luck with that.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

VG Cats - Error 404, Update does not exist

Seems appropriate.

Congratulations on finding a two month old comic, must've been a real strain.

Fact remains, people today mangle the words "casual" and "hardcore" to suit their personal definitions of the word, as Feba clearly does. They do this because they were not around in the hobby back then, be it due to age or just not being into games back then.

People say Nintendo isn't "hardcore" when they look at the Wii. Congratulations for looking at the Wii, which happens to be one of the systems Nintendo has out there right now. There are many core titles on the DS and enough to keep my satisfied so I'm not freaking out about the last time I turned on a Wii.

If "hardcore" means buying all the latest action games and FPS that came out this last month, unlocking the achievments and moving on - I'm glad to pass on being that definition of hardcore. If being "hardcore" gamer means you just play games and post on a forum, again I'll pass (and I've actually see it said on gaming forums countless times).

I enjoy collecting and playing games in a very thourough fashion. I don't Gamefly the latest releases to have something to talk about over the watercooler or obsess about which games look better on my home theater. I don't rate a system by how often I play it. I don't give a damn about which console is the best, I just know each one has different strengths.

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Fact remains, people today mangle the words "casual" and "hardcore" to suit their personal definitions of the word, as Feba clearly does.

Yes; when BBQ pulls a definition out of thin-air, it's fact; when Feba does, he's mangling a word.

Pay no attention to the rest of the media, population, and manufacturers/producers in a field using the term 'duck' to refer to something looks, swims, and quacks like a duck.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

They do this because they were not around in the hobby back then, be it due to age or just not being into games back then.

Wrong. They do this to define a paradigm shift that doesn't have any better language to describe it. They use it to describe the massive influx of non-traditional gamers buying and playing games which are perceived as being more shallow, or less challenging, especially ones in the style of Touch Generations.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

People say Nintendo isn't "hardcore" when they look at the Wii. Congratulations for looking at the Wii,

Nice strawman there. Not only have I not said anything about the Wii, good or bad, but it is the only current gen console I own. It is plenty core.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If "hardcore" means buying all the latest action games and FPS that came out this last month, unlocking the achievments and moving on - I'm glad to pass on being that definition of hardcore. If being "hardcore" gamer means you just play games and post on a forum, again I'll pass

Also a nice strawman, and not what anyone was suggesting.

There's a difference between the stereotypical "Grab it, beat it, return it" gamer and the hardcore gamer. One of them is something that you either are or hate. The other is more of a marketing term. In the same way that the book industry classifies people who buy stuff to read on the plane, but nothing more.

[DakAttack]

I doubt hardcore is a word somebody would list while brainstorming words they would associate with the Wii. I sure as hell wouldn't. Dead Space: Extraction would be one of the few hardcore games offered on the less-than-hardcore console.

If the Wii had a cellphone, he'd tell you to call him when you're free. On the other hand, the Xbox 360 and PS3 are at your fscking door asking your mom if you can hang out.