[TheGrandMom]

Ok in this thread:

FFXIV, I hope it's not like what this has become.

a point was brought up about guides. It was mainly about using other peoples experiences in MMO's to guide yourself through the same experience and not so much about published guides for offline games. But it got me to thinking and I thought it would be interesting to see what the DiV community thinks about guides.

Is using information, in any form, to figure out how to do something ok only in MMO's or does it extend to offline gaming as well?

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I personally buy most guides for the games I buy. It's more of a collection issue than a use issue most of the time. I like to have both items for value's sake. Though I will say that there are times I've used guides instead of hitting up GameFaqs when I got stuck. (i.e. I'm too damn lazy to log online and look it up with the guide laying nearby. LOL) Sometimes I'll play a game through and then hear about this or that extra bit that I missed so then I'll dig out the guide and play it again following the guide to get all the extra bits. Doesn't happen often but for a game I was really into and the extra bits sound interesting, ya I'll do it.

So what about all of you? Will you admit to using guides to your friends? Maybe no because they'll look down their nose at you? Are they the annoying people that think a written guide is cheating but yet they park their asses at GameFaqs and spout off that its perfectly fine to do that? (I have a couple friends like this...I'd like to pop them one.) Do you only use online guides for the current MMO you're playing instead of figuring it out for yourself? Is that cheating or is that just survival?

[Susurrus]

Eh it depends on the game really. Usually I like to go through the game without because of the adventuring (but have no qualm with looking something up instead of spending 10 hours to do the same thing). I do use guides for 100% play-throughs after originally playing through the game.

I will admit I did start using a gamefaqs guide while playing through Banjo-Tooie on XBLA. Some of the puzzles on there are sooooooooooo obscure, and I have other games I'd like to get to.

[Sekighara]

Well I don't get guides because I am adverse to spending money, but I do ten to read bits and pieces while in the store if I see them, specially if I do not own the game yet. Mostly I try to do my best with out guides of any kind in both off and online games. When I get stuck in an offline game though I have the ability to just take a break and then reload my save and then figure it out.

In FFXI especially on missions I tend to use guides to get cutscenes when people are waiting for me or when there are obscure requirements. I tend to do quests with out guides but then after the first death do to being mauled because sneak and or invisible wore when I got lost in eldimine I usually ask and ls member and if no luck check out ffpedia.Also for drops I tend to research those when I am running through an area because farming is brain numbing and if I am passing by something that I haven't fought in a while or never seen pop before I check it. Recently I have been using ffxi-atlas more and more for camps because people tend to not like my camp ideas.

Is it cheating yeah but it is your game you get out of it what you put in. when new content is out and people rush towards it it is because the feeling that you did it on your own. That something that newer players can find daunting. I remember when I picked the game back up I was so happy about any achievements reguardless if I did it with or without the guide. But at the end of the day I think it is the challenge that you get out of it. Some guides online just tell you how to get there but your on your own when you get there. I did mission 5-1 saturday I believe with a group between 51-56 a man down and samurai tanking. When we finished we felt accomplished because the fight was hard to us. So I guess it is what I can take out of it, because offline game I feel kinda pathetic but online games I don't.

[Yellow Mage]

I only really have guides for my Pokemon games; it's more an issue of not wanting to miss something along the way more than anything.

Which reminds me of something that's sort of off topic, but I wish Nintendo Power still made guides. I mean, we have this whole HeartGold and SoulSilver thing coming eventually, and the guides written by companies like Prima for Pokemon games in the past were just terrible.
'
Of course, this is all hardly relevant until I actually start picking up my Pokemon games again . . .

[Kaziel0]

For games like most action games which I can beat relatively quickly (e.g. inFAMOUS, [PROTOTYPE], Ghostbusters), I'll play through once to beat it "on my own" unless I get really, really stumped (by that I mean dying multiple times without making any progress on it).

For much longer games, like pretty much any of the recent Final Fantasies or Mass Effect, I'll get a guide. It's fun and all to beat the game on your own, but man, the things you can miss because you don't know about stuff? I don't want to start over because I didn't know not to open the chest in one area so now I can't get the Zodiac Spear. When I use one of those guides, I priimarily use it just to find that random stuff that no sane person would think of trying to get. I don't bother looking at the information on how to beat the boss. I can figure that stuff out on my own.

[Takelli]

I usually try something two to three times before I look up a guide. I like to try something, then go look it up if I am havin gissues.

Running around 2-3 hours in an offline game trying to figure out a puzzle gets annoying, especially because you have no one that youc an ask for help. online though... I usually ask for help to figure something out, not ask them to do it for me. If they do it for me, I try not to have them "help", and I continue on my own. If I get some one that will actualy help, and not do the puzzle for me, I will accept their help.

Thats the same online. If you are wandering around trying to figure something out, then you look it up online, the person that wrote the guide is bassically doing the mission/quest/what ever you are doing for you.

I will only look it up, if I really need to, other than that, I don't.

[Durahansolo]

Long story short, I try to spend the least money as I can on gaming essentials besides the game. If I feel like a written guide wouldn't help me, then I'd get a real guide (Prima or BROGBrady.). Majority of the time I'm checking gamefaqs to see what questions people are asking about the point that I am at, and then I'll check the gamefaqs guide if there is one.

I've been playing Fallout 3 with one from gamefaqs so I don't miss any weapons or anything that I might want or need later on.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

I only really have guides for my Pokemon games; it's more an issue of not wanting to miss something along the way more than anything.

Which reminds me of something that's sort of off topic, but I wish Nintendo Power still made guides. I mean, we have this whole HeartGold and SoulSilver thing coming eventually, and the guides written by companies like Prima for Pokemon games in the past were just terrible.
'
Of course, this is all hardly relevant until I actually start picking up my Pokemon games again . . .

Ya I think the last NP guide I got was Twilight Princess. I got it free for renewing my subscription with NP and I have left it sealed in its plastic wrap. I really miss their guides and giving Prima the rights to making guides for them was a HUGE mistake! Prima guides are teh suck!

I know most of you won't remember this but back in the day (oh ya I walked a mile to school uphill in the snow with no socks or shoes too!), we didn't have many guides. What we had was a nifty little long distance phone number in the back of the booklet. LOL Oh I got my ass into trouble SOOOO many times with my husband for long distance charges! We didn't pay 2 cents a minute like you do now, it was much more expensive so a 20 minute call (most of it spent on hold) was expensive when you did it on a regular basis! Game Hints Hotline....oh the memories! LOL

[Solymir]

I have never played a FF game without a guide. I also bought guides for Xenogears and Xenosaga. I'm not great at figuring crap out on my own. I need all the help I can get.

[Kaziel0]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

I know most of you won't remember this but back in the day (oh ya I walked a mile to school uphill in the snow with no socks or shoes too!), we didn't have many guides. What we had was a nifty little long distance phone number in the back of the booklet. LOL Oh I got my ass into trouble SOOOO many times with my husband for long distance charges! We didn't pay 2 cents a minute like you do now, it was much more expensive so a 20 minute call (most of it spent on hold) was expensive when you did it on a regular basis! Game Hints Hotline....oh the memories! LOL

I'm right there with you remembering that!

GO TEAM VENTURE!

[Callisto]

I recall reading through the BradyGames FFXI guide at Barnes & Noble and how it gave literally the most inaccurate information it possibly could about several areas of game mechanics and job combinations, and encouraged people to use absolutely fucking awful RP /p macros for their XP parties.

As far as things like using online guides to figure out a mission or quest, in all honesty the standard hints given by the NPCs are pretty goddamn vague and cryptic in the majority of the quests and/or missions in regards to where the hell you're suppsoed to go next and what you're supposed to do when you get there. I spend so much time just dealing with the everyday grinding in FFXI that I don't really feel bad about looking things up online, because if I spent all my own time figuring out every one myself I'd either get no sleep or get nothing done ingame.

Furthermore, having one centralized piece of information that all the other 5-50 people who are working with you on the quest/mission/event/whatever can look up so that you don't have to try and explain it yourself to every individual one is nice. CoP would probably be even more hell than it already is if if wasn't for the fact that everyone can read up about the fights themselves and have some semblance of knowing what to expect when it comes time to try it.

And of course, *ahem* a specific person's brand of job guides that can be found on the internet are always recommended.


(Ugh, speaking of, the RDM one is overdue for an update )

For offline games I only really get a guide if it A) comes free with the game or B) comes with some sort of other bonus like an exclusive art book or something.

[Solymir]

How did I get credited with TGM's quote? Lol.

Crap, I just realized I need to clarify I never used a guide "book" for FFXI. I only used online sources such as this site or FFXIclopedia.

[Kaziel0]

Oh wow... Umm.... I guess it was because I did a quick reply and you replied before I finished making my post so it credited the quote to the "last person" which went from TGM to you?

[Solymir]

Originally Posted by Kaziel0

Oh wow... Umm.... I guess it was because I did a quick reply and you replied before I finished making my post so it credited the quote to the "last person" which went from TGM to you?

I Ninja'd your post!!! /insert pic of Ninja

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[Kaziel0]

Originally Posted by Solymir

I Ninja'd your post!!! /insert pic of Ninja

Fixed my original post.