[GreatMno]

I wouldn't mind having an Japanese option available. I liked the option in Chaos Legion. Of course I really wouldn't miss it either. The way I approach the option of having two languages to listen to is that I can switch it up if I ever have the inclination. Sometimes I feel like listening in Japanese with subs so that I can compare how the two approach the script and present the story, and sometimes I just get tired of hearing the same stuff in something I understand. Soul Calibur is a good example of this. An added bonus is that sometimes what is being said is different in the two versions, so I get two different feels for the scene.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

The US actors are usually a bunch of young people that went out to CA dreaming of hitting it big and found out that waiting tables was the best they could do.

Michael McConnohie is one of the best in the business tyvm. Crispin Freeman is another gem of a VA. <3 his performances as Holland (Eureka 7) and Aldebo (Xenosaga) And the English dub of FMA was unbelievable (Christopher Sabat was just too good as Armstrong omg.)

[Satimasu]

Before, I would say Japanese over English. That was back then when most of the English voice actors sucked. It sounded like the found random people on the street and offered them money to read a script.

Nowadays the professional voice actors are way better than they used to be. If you want an example of bad Japanese voice acting vs. good English voice acting, just watch the Xenosaga III ending with Jin and there you go.

Like with Dynasty Warriors 3-6, you can hear the voice acting start from completely horrible and get much better over time. I can see why they offered the JP VA when 3 was out. Simply put, Michael Gough is awesome. Doesn't stop with him though.

[Armando]

There's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Blum. I may be biased towards Cowboy Bebop and Brave Fencer Musashi because of nostalgia, but I like his work.

[Grizzlebeard]

Slightly unrelated but when I watch foreign cinema, whether it be Japanese or any other language, I prefer to watch it in its native language and read the subtitles. There's too much of a disconnect between the actor performing a role and putting emotion into their performance and having a dubbed, "Hey guys, like ya know!". While it's a stretch to apply that logic to videogame content I can see how some would prefer to have the choice. Being devil's advocate though, I'd say you really shouldn't expect anything other than the native language of the country you live in.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

You can think what you want because you're entitled to that but I prefer the Japanese voices. The JP actors are more professional and actually care about the part. The US actors are usually a bunch of young people that went out to CA dreaming of hitting it big and found out that waiting tables was the best they could do. So they take whatever is thrown at them from an extra in a commercial to voice acting because they need the money. There are occasional games that employ more well known people that actually give a damn but for 95% of games thats not what happens.

Bzzzt. Wrong. But thanks for playing.

Its not that they're more professional - that's BS, they have as many horrible actors over there as they do over here - its more to the end that they have a different philosophy with recording and that their actors all live in one convenient little time zones which means less travel and scheduling conflicts for them.

Many animated movies/shows and video games in the west - regardless of region - have actors working solo and lacking the ability to improvise and play off their other actors because they can't be there. And people want these big Hollywood actors in their games, if these were guys just looking to get their foot in the door, they'd all be complete unknowns.

They're not, most of these actors are professional Hollywood actors. Only on rare occasions will see a company use their own staff or find professional actors willing to make the time to record with other actors. Many of Sony's in-house games that are made in the US or EU territories do make it a point to get actors working together, which is why many of the characters have good chemistry.

If you want to blame anyone for the state of how games are localized in the west - blame western gamers. You ask for Hollywood and Hollywood is what you get. Steve Blum and Cam Clarke can only wait so long for the other guys to show up before they have other shit to do. If you want chemistry - you want small time practically unknown actors because they can make the time.

Didn't the new Star Trek just prove that? None of that cast is really big time Hollywood. At least not before that movie.

Very rarely will you ever find a big Hollywood actor willing to make one project a complete priority.

Again, the people that want to hear it in Japanese are the minority in the west. Not only do they try to vouch for the quality of a dub in a language they don't fully know, they ignore the truth and reality of how recording is done here and draw conclusions surrounding it.

For the disadvantages actors out here have to face, they manage to do pretty well. I don't see the likes of Kingdom Hearts, FFXII or Persona 4 suffering for the nature of recordings here.

[DakAttack]

Advent Children in English... 'nuff said.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Its not that they're more professional - that's BS, they have as many horrible actors over there as they do over here - its more to the end that they have a different philosophy with recording and that their actors all live in one convenient little time zones which means less travel and scheduling conflicts for them.

JP actors can actually make a living off of voice acting. Over there many voice actors are highly prized and superstars. The US actors are looking to be the next big thing on the screen and voice acting is a very little part of what they feel is success. They usually don't have a steady flow of income from voice acting because there are just so many wanna-be's out there to compete against. Since they feel that voice acting is just another way to put food on the table occasionally, they don't really treat it as seriously as JP actors do. If they did, then we wouldn't have the abysmal history of sucking at it as we do.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Many animated movies/shows and video games in the west - regardless of region - have actors working solo and lacking the ability to improvise and play off their other actors because they can't be there.

And I wasn't talking about voice acting solo. I was talking about the JP producer being there to input his 2 cents in order to get the same feel that the JP version has. First the language barrier prevents that and second the budget does too. Usually you'll see that the team that does the English voices does not use the JP team and because of that there is a loss because 2 different people will have 2 different ways of doing things no matter how hard they try to be the same. Interpretation is difficult enough in the same language but even more so with 2 very different languages.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

They're not, most of these actors are professional Hollywood actors.

You know what it takes to be a "professional actor? Go join the union and send your resume/picture around. Whoppdie friggin do.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Didn't the new Star Trek just prove that? None of that cast is really big time Hollywood. At least not before that movie.

Fyi, to an actor, doing a big budget movie and voice acting in a game are 2 entirely different things. One you'll work your ass off on because it has a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE potential at making or breaking your career and the other is a meh because not too many people looking to cast you are impressed with the voice acting you did in a video game (well except other people looking to cast you for voice acting in a video game lol).

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Again, the people that want to hear it in Japanese are the minority in the west. Not only do they try to vouch for the quality of a dub in a language they don't fully know, they ignore the truth and reality of how recording is done here and draw conclusions surrounding it.

Never said people that wanted the JP track weren't in the minority. I said that I prefer having the option for the JP track. Yes, I don't know the language but I do enjoy the tones and emotional feel of the JP voices better than English and since its a free country and I have a right to feel this way, whats the problem? As for the knowing about voice acting, I have a couple of family members on my father's side that are in the acting business. (Not very successful but they've went farther than most of us have! lol) Since he passed, I really don't keep in touch with that side of the family anymore but I do remember talking with them at yearly family gatherings.

At least I don't malign people who do enjoy the English acting by saying "they're just whiny motherfuckers when you give them a keyboard and a forum to post on" or "Not to mention they wouldn't know acting if it walked up and kicked them in the nuts. In either language." I enjoy the JP voices more. I prefer to have the option to listen to them over the English voices. I've stated MY reasons why I do because thats MY opinion. And I've done so without having to be nasty to the people that enjoy the English version. It's more than I can say for you.

[Pai Pai Master]

When you choose to listen to foreign music do you demand that someone else sing the song in English?

Not sure what the problem is with wanting to experience art from another culture in its more native state.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

JP actors can actually make a living off of voice acting. Over there many voice actors are highly prized and superstars. The US actors are looking to be the next big thing on the screen and voice acting is a very little part of what they feel is success. They usually don't have a steady flow of income from voice acting because there are just so many wanna-be's out there to compete against. Since they feel that voice acting is just another way to put food on the table occasionally, they don't really treat it as seriously as JP actors do. If they did, then we wouldn't have the abysmal history of sucking at it as we do.

So you're saying Samuel L Jackson and James Woods are small time? These aren't projects they needed to do to get by. I think you're pulling these comments out of nowhere - much of the actors hired by the companies I buy games from pull from people who voice act professionally. These aren't just hopefuls pulled off the street.

In reality, its actually very, very hard to get a break in voice acting for animation and video games - studios would prefer to get professionals. This was something I seriously considered as a career path for myself until I saw the writing on the wall for video games. It was stuff like Metal Gear Solid that closed that door for a lot of people.

Konami doesn't really splurge on that kind of acting outside of Metal Gear and Namco is pretty horrible about localization, so bad you want someone else to not only get the actors, but have someone else handle translations. Bandai-Namco just cares about a quick buck.

I wasn't talking about voice acting solo. I was talking about the JP producer being there to input his 2 cents, And in order to get the same feel that the JP version has. First the language barrier prevents that and second the budget does too. Usually you'll see that the team that does the English voices does not use the JP team and because of that there is a loss because 2 different people will have 2 different ways of doing things no matter how hard they try to be the same. Interpretation is difficult enough in the same language but even more so with 2 very different languages

I was making the distinction in styles for a reason - they matter. It affects how things are recorded.

A few or the major RPG producers out there do it exactly at the level you just described. SE did it everything after FFX, Atlus did it as of Digital Devil Saga and Disgaea. Some of the Atlus and Nippon Ichi titles did hae the JP language option because they have the space to spare.

It looks like Blu-Ray is going to have that space for Final Fantasy this time. So if that's what you really care about, you'll want the PS3 version. 360 went with a smaller format, so it won't happen.
When you choose to listen to foreign music do you demand that someone else sing the song in English?

Not sure what the problem is with wanting to experience art from another culture in its more native state.
I don't really see the merit in hearing it in Japanese over English because its still a story written by Kitase. Emo kids save the world - its what he writes. Nomura isn't much better. Been that way since FFVII. Makes me wonder if FFVI was a fluke, because everything outside of FFXI and FFXII hasn't been a different flavor from it. And I'm worried its rubbing off on Nomura, though I'll reserve judgement until after I finish TWEWY and he puts out a couple more games.

Really, its stuff like FFIV, FFXI, Tactics and FFXII that make me miss the political intrigue of the series. FFVI had a bit of this, too, though it was more campy. I don't mind the sci-fi stuff or the guns, but I'd like to see characters that act a bit more grown up now. The other games still have a bit of merit on gameplay, but not story or emotional maturity.

Originally Posted by Pai Pai Master

When you choose to listen to foreign music do you demand that someone else sing the song in English?

I don't think anyone does, but which non-english culture makes the most liberal use of english in their music? Or in their animation, games movies and such? And not for the sake of appeasing western players?

Japan. I have quite a few games, shows and movies that reflect this.

Not sure what the problem is with wanting to experience art from another culture in its more native state.

The problem? Because when it is done in english, we'll never hear the end of it.That's about the size of it. When they option for both is given, they'll listen to the english version just to complain about it.

Personally, I like games like Devil Summoner 2 and Dragon Quest where they can get around it by not voicing it at all. Beause I know the people who advocate JP acting as "better" are knocked off thier high horses, they have to play it in english because they, in general, don't know japanese.

Plus it lets some localization teams have a lot more freedom than they do now.

[Pai Pai Master]

The only mainline FFs Kitase's written were VI and VII (co-wrote with Nojima). He didn't even write XIII. The only mainline FF Nomura's written is Versus XIII.

Considering the story of XIII, political themes are pretty damn likely.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

He's still producing it - reason enough for concern.

Well, seems any time they actually have Crystals in the game, political themes pop back up. That was another minor annoyance for awhile.

OK Magicite was crystal enough.

Materia is little balls of magic, FFVIII didn't have crystals, FFIX tacked crystals on at the end, FFX had spheres, FFXI brought the theme back for real. FFXII picked the theme up again, but called it magicite/nethicite. FFXIII has crystals.

It has crystals and an odd number... so where's mah freakin job system?

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

So you're saying Samuel L Jackson and James Woods are small time? These aren't projects they needed to do to get by. I think you're pulling these comments out of nowhere - much of the actors hired by the companies I buy games from pull from people who voice act professionally. These aren't just hopefuls pulled off the street.

No actually you should either read everything I post or stop taking it out of context.

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

The US actors are usually a bunch of young people that went out to CA dreaming of hitting it big and found out that waiting tables was the best they could do. So they take whatever is thrown at them from an extra in a commercial to voice acting because they need the money. There are occasional games that employ more well known people that actually give a damn but for 95% of games thats not what happens.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

In reality, its actually very, very hard to get a break in voice acting for animation and video games - studios would prefer to get professionals.

Its just like most professional jobs. Once you have experience in it, its easier to get a job in your field but getting that initial experience can be a bit difficult. But it doesn't mean that every time you get your foot in the door that you're always needed or that you are paid well. Many voice actors have to have more than one job to put food on the table.

[Raydeus]

/

Question:

What's the career path for a voice actor in the US?

My thoughts.

As I've said many times before, one of the main reasons why I've disliked 95%* of (US) English voice actor's work is that they tend to treat any kind of japanese animation/videogame as cartoons "Looney Toons style" With those exagerated voices which are perfect for Bugs or Homer, but have absolutely no place in a game like ZoE2.



A movie treatment and proper pronunciation of Japanese names would be a huge improvement that should've been the default from the very begining.

And heck, if the US was able to start playing Futbol decently in recent years there's no reason they can't get their act together on the voice acting front, specially in this economy.


*As that other 5% comes from series decently dubbed. But in those cases it seems like anime requires to be about guns, murder and include lots of blood to be treated seriously enough to do a decent dubbing job on it. Everything else gets the Bugs treatment.



PS > In comparison, Mexico's case was the oposite. Spanish dubbing was always pretty substandard and somewhat embarrasing for movies and live shows in english, but was incredibly well suited for anime. That, coupled with Spanish's natural compatibility with Japanese pronunciation made anime dubbing start off with very good voice quality even though the first translated scritps were so poorly done.

PS > I just hope BBQ is completely aware that it was him who brought the dubbing subject to this thread. In my case I was just gonna post "Meh I'm getting whichever PS3 version is in japanese anyway /shrug " and move on.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Raydeus

PS > I just hope BBQ is completely aware that it was him who brought the dubbing subject to this thread. In my case I was just gonna post "Meh I'm getting whichever PS3 version is in japanese anyway /shrug " and move on.

Actually it was the topic title that brought that up, but thanks for playing. Topic title implied the dub may appear in the PS3 version. Who knows if that will really happen, though? It may go like every other FF where there's a time delay between JP and US/EU release. They might add content for us, which will be FF International fodder down the road. They could still run out of room for a JP dub.

Still, I'll take New Game Plus over JP dub in a heartbeat.

As I've said, I've just become partial to just reading rather than having any dub at all. I take anything as it comes. I just cringe when the otakus pop up or those people frustrated just by hearing other languages rear their ugly redneck heads. Then there's the fuckwit that hates subtitles - you know, the guy for whom reading takes massive mental energy and isn't a subconscious action ("It takes my eyes off the action.")

As much as I may knock Kitase for his stories or production work, its really the core game I care about. Fail that and you've certainly lost me. I think people who will trudge through a bad game for story are pretty much insane. I couldn't make it through Xenosaga II because it failed as an RPG.