[Zempten]

I highly doubt anyone minds being TAed on in merit PTs, considering the time spent to kill the mob is around 30-45 seconds. It's SA + WS in a merit PT that's the problem.

[Akashimo]

SA WS in meripo is the problem but for the other activites its both/TA + ws.

[Malacite]

THF in my shell was explaining it last night. He's absolutely thrilled about Collaborator and persuaded me in the belief that the people shooting it down as crap, saying SE is ignoring THF are ignorant.


As he pointed out, it's on a 1 minute timer. This allows for a lot of flexible hate control now. BLM just bursted a high lv nuke and didn't kill the mob? NP. WHM in trouble from a Cure V? Again, np.

Now THF can jack some hate every minute and add that extra hate to their Trick Attacks. I think this is what SE meant to do in the first place. Like my LS mate said, Accomplice is really more of an emergency ability.

[Ziero]

While that concept does sound great, the only real problem is that the extra hate will *not* affect TA in any way. Only the hate from the hit itself will transfer over when TA is used, so any Hate a Thf manages to build up will still belong to the thf.

Personally, I think boosting it so Thf TA actually does transfer a percentage of the Thf's hate, instead of just the hit, would be an excellent boost and follow along with this "master of hate manipulation" bit SE is pushing towards. If we could go around plucking small amounts of hate from people, then drop ALL of it onto a tank, that would be absolutely awesome imo.

Again, I personally like making thf into a 'technical' melee Job, so the more little tricks like that we can do, the better.

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by Malacite

Now THF can jack some hate every minute and add that extra hate to their Trick Attacks.

No. You sound like Slycooper -.-

Originally Posted by Ziero

While that concept does sound great, the only real problem is that the extra hate will *not* affect TA in any way. Only the hate from the hit itself will transfer over when TA is used, so any Hate a Thf manages to build up will still belong to the thf.

If only people learn this faster -_-; Also see above quote.

[Celeal]

Collaborator is opposite of Trick Attack, IMHO:
Trick Attack == Increase Hate of a member (TA + WS)
Collaborator == Reduce Hate of a member (grab a percentage of hate directly)

THF and NIN tank should dance happily together.

As long as Collaborator combines THF's current hate is below the *tank* hate threshold, it is all good.

[711rocks]

tanked shikigami really easily using Collab in a party of thf/nin, drk/sam, rdm/bst, and rdm/whm this morning
its a fun ability
we got drop too so that was tight

[Kaickul]

Originally Posted by Wise Donkey

I think THF's largest problem is the largely ignorant/lazy community, not the job or its abilities.

Yeah, that's why I pretty much gave up on THF... for having to rely on other people. I just got tired of having to expect other people to recognize that THF is a job that requires their cooperation.

I was happy after our weapon damage increase though, considering we will never do as much damage as other jobs with our evasion.

[Eauijhkuu]

It's not great, but it's not horrible.

It's not flowers, Akashimo;
But it's not all thorns either.

I'm honestly liking the fact that Square Enix wants to remedy the situation to give us more avenues to conduct enmity in parties. Albeit, there's alot of other things that the dev. team could have come up with (Especially as far as Steal, Aura Steal, and Mug are concerned), I think it's a step in a more useful direction.
I've always considered my usefulness in helping to manage hate in a party - This makes it slightly easier.

That's not to say that the job is going to suddenly become more popular or demanded for certain events; But the avenue is there.

In honesty tho, I think the death of Skillchain usage causes alot of bias and ignorance. But it's overly obvious that the only people meant to skillchain nowadays are people who gain a great deal of TP. And since the mobs die fast enough, there's no need to manage hate, or tank, for that matter.

[Nuriko]

Originally Posted by Malacite

As he pointed out, it's on a 1 minute timer. This allows for a lot of flexible hate control now. BLM just bursted a high lv nuke and didn't kill the mob? NP. WHM in trouble from a Cure V? Again, np.

Just one small note ... Cure V doesn't draw much hate, it's more or less equal to a Cure III. It's Cure IV that really grabs it ... besides, WHM have the Regens to manage hate too. I could see RDM loving this for when they have to do Convert / Cure IV, though

[711rocks]

the problem(s) with accom and collab imo, are distance and maybe pt only
how often are you next to the blm you're trying to save? i find i always have to run after them.
as for the alliancewide part, trick attack is, why not make this? then we could be getting brd buffs or w/e in the melee pt and still save a blm in need

of course this assumes theres a thf in the main alliance before a mob has 3% of its hp left olololololol

D:

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Nuriko

Just one small note ... Cure V doesn't draw much hate, it's more or less equal to a Cure III. It's Cure IV that really grabs it ... besides, WHM have the Regens to manage hate too. I could see RDM loving this for when they have to do Convert / Cure IV, though

What Nuriko says about Cure V.

He's also right about the Convert; I was taking full advantage of Accomplice in merit parties by Converting and DS+Cure IV right next the melees (getting buddy-buddy with the THF, to be more specific).

The finer grained control from Collaborator is nice, as is the better recast timer.

[Malacite]

Right my bad, meant Cure IV (forgot Cure V has that reduced enmity trait)

[Akashimo]

Wasn't the emity posts a little while back stated Cure V has a high CE but not as VE as the others? So it'll still build up, just not as changing as Cure IV or lets say, a voke.

[Shadowneko]

thanks for the long discussion people. I kept wondering how to use the new THF JAs(having not played THF in a long time) and somewhere in the nice long debate I got my answer ^^