[IfritnoItazura]

Hi,

I'd like to know what the Thief community thinks how well a Thief can fulfill the various roles in exp parties from Lv.10-75.

I know that's a very broad subject, so it would helpful to reduce it just a simple numerical rating for every 10 levels. The rating should range from 0-5; 0 means "none to negligible", while 5 means "top of the game".

If you plan to give a rating outside of the community norm, please list a (very) short reason why. (e.g. "Lv.30's/Support: 4 -- partying with NIN tank; because hate control is so important for them)

I'll look over the fellow up postings (hopefully there will be some), and compile the result. To start with, I'll provide some numbers I pull out of the thin air; feel free to copy the table, modify, then post:

Lv.1-23 Normal: THF/(WAR, MNK, or RNG)
Lv.24-75 Normal: THF/NIN

L.10's/Tank: 2
L.10's/Phys. DD: 2
L.10's/Support: 1 (Puller)

L.20's/Tank: 1
L.20's/Phys. DD: 4
L.20's/Support: 1 (Puller, Acid bolt)

L.30's/Tank: 0
L.30's/Phys. DD: 5
L.30's/Support: 2 (Hate control, Puller, Acid bolt)/ 3 (NIN tank hate control)

L.40's/Tank: 0
L.40's/Phys. DD: 4/ 5(THF/WAR)
L.40's/Support: 2 (Hate control, Puller, Acid bolt)

L.50's/Tank: 0
L.50's/Phys. DD: 3/ 4(THF/WAR)
L.50's/Support: 2 (Hate control, Puller, Acid bolt)

L.60's/Tank: 0
L.60's/Phys. DD: 3/ 4(THF/WAR)
L.60's/Support: 1 (Hate control, Puller, Acid bolt)

L.70's/Tank: 0
L.70's/Phys. DD: 3/ 4(THF/WAR)
L.70's/Support: 1 (Hate control, Puller, Acid bolt)

Roles definitions:

Tank:
Holds monster's attention away from other party members, and do so with damage mitigation/avoidance to reduce MP usage for healing.

Physical DD:
Typically, attacks monster physically via melee weapon or ranged weapon. (Magic counts, as long as its damage is checked against the monster's defense instead of magical defense--shouldn't apply to THF's.)

Magic DD:
Attacks monsters with "magic" (whether MP based, Ninjutsu based, or song based); attacks used must check against monster's magic defense instead of physical defense.

Support:
Enfeebles monster and/or enhances ability of party members or help them in their role. Also include specialized functions such as crowd control (i.e. sleeper), pulling, hate control (SATA on tank).

Healer:
Don't bother; doesn't concern us.

[Kag is fxcking dead.]

You're putting entirely too much thought into something as simple as leveling up a job by yourself to see if you like it or not. If you're not planning on leveling it up, just read around and see what people think. You'll get probably a ton of different responses by a ton of biased people who either love thief or hate it.

[Jei]

I think post 30 Thf is almost the only job that can control hate, all the way to 60. For a party with ninja tank, they are very, very helpful.

Post 60 until 74 or 75 I still favour Thf more than Drk/Thf. Because of the reliable first strike when the battle starts.

75 merit PT, Thf is the most useful if you go for tougher mobs like Rams in Lufaise Meadows. Or mobs weak to piercing in Sea. They don't fit well with burn PT however, like monk burn, axe burn, ninja burn, etc.

[Perrin]

don't forget we can tank too! (74+ of course, but certain NMs I have tanked long enough for the PT to escape or win the fight)

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Kag is fxcking dead.

You're putting entirely too much thought into something as simple as leveling up a job by yourself to see if you like it or not.

heh. My THF is 42, the highest job I have. So, I already like THF, and plan on leveling it more. Although I do have some general ideas of what people think, the purpose here is to get numeric ratings. (Which I haven't gotten any, so far. )

Originally Posted by Perrin

don't forget we can tank too! (74+ of course, but certain NMs I have tanked long enough for the PT to escape or win the fight)

That's usually more solo'ing than tanking, and you can perform crowd control duties even before 74 if you have sleep bolts and have marksmanship capped. My interests lie more in THF's role(s) within more traditional exp parties. ^_^;

[Gawaine]

THF rocks I give it a 5 in everything WHOOOT!

[Eauijhkuu]

Lol.

In my career as THF, I've found seen myself Not only being puller, DD, and hate controller...

But I've tanked in Dunes as THF/WAR, and held hate quite well, surprisingly enough (Or sadly, whichever way you look at it).

When NIN doesn't want to Debuff elemental resist, THF/NIN hops up for action.

Yes. We can outpull other parties if our parties can kill faster than others. Flee is always a plus.

We're expert Farmers.

We can pick our own AF.


...What's more to say? We rock.
And they know it.
And that's why they hate us so much! ^__^

[Lmnop]

thf is one of 2 jobs that can solo- tank Charybdis, last I checked. You don't solo Chary.

So yea, I'd say give 'em points for tanking. While their exp tanking functionality is 0, their small-party stuff is terrific. Brd + Thf duo good exp. there was a thf around here that once posted about duoing almost every avatar battle just thf + blm in the 60s.

However, if you're looking for strictly 6-man exp party situations, I'll let you keep their tanking at 0.

[Perrin]

I have been the main tank in a few exp parties while we were seeking for a new main. I held hate just fine, granted we had only 1 mage, but after about 30 seconds even the nukes weren't giving me too many issues.

So it is a valid option/role

[Tokitoki]

Ever had a THF PT? 3-4 THF SATAing onto eachother against monsters. With capped evasion and various equipment you usually have that 75, you tank just fine against exp mobs.

With little to no eva gear I had Mamool and Puks in woodlands missing me... Any eva I did have came from AGI+ on gear I had on at the time because I was using Haste setup <.<

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

However, if you're looking for strictly 6-man exp party situations, I'll let you keep their tanking at 0.

Yes, 6/6, conventional exp party. ^_^;

Probably shouldn't have included stuff on Lv.70+; party situations seem to get weird at those levels.

[Balgas]

I loved playing as THF. Straight on melee damage was subpar, but SATA is great. Soloing is not an issue usually. However if things get tight, then just 2hour or Flee!!! If your party gets wiped you probably have the highest survivability. I remember having a couple of horrible parties in CN and tanking a few crawlers just fine, and that was with /nin as a sub. Yup, I sure love THF.

[Lmnop]

you can do parties with 3ish thieves at just about any level and make it work. When you watch a thf/nin tank an add for a minute straight w/out outside help, you see their survival potential. But typically, you don't have a thf solo tank. the routine with multiple thieves tricking each other is fun but still, can't say thf is viable main, solo tank for a normal 6 man party.

[Kittyneko]

All I have to say, switch all the "support" ratings with the "DD" ones lol.

[Icemage]

THF 1-10: Worst solo job in the game at the start. Truly horrible. Low damage weapons, and feeds TP to enemies like it's going out of style. Best accomplished by using Hand-to-Hand with +ACC/+STR gear, or with sword and shield with similar setup.

THF 11-14: First parties

Tank: 4, Good
/WAR with Provoke and you're basically like any other melee, except with slightly weaker weapons. Armor isn't really any different in this range, and you do dodge a bit more with better native evasion than any other job plus Evasion Bonus trait, but your lower damage output makes it slightly harder to hold hate (but not much).

DD: 3, Decent
Not good, not abysmal. Weak choice of weapons and weaponskills - most smart thieves are using hand-to-hand or 1H swords in this range for the superior damage from Combo and Fast Blade, respectively.

Puller: 3, Decent
With enemy radar, higher than average evasion, but no shadows or Flee available makes them better than low-evasion melees for pulling, but only slightly.

THF 15-29: Sneak Attack

Tank: 2, Bad
Almost impossible to hold hate, as damage-over-time from THF without counting Sneak Attack + WS is very low, and you can't Sneak Attack if you're tanking.

DD: 5, Excellent
Sneak Attack gives excellent boosts to WS damage. In this level range, THF deals the most WS damage of all melee jobs, bar none, which makes them excellent skillchain closers. Weapon selection still favors H2H or 1H Sword over daggers at this point, as there are no strong dagger WS in this range.

Puller: 5, Excellent
Flee is great for hanging onto XP chains on longer pulls, and Utsusemi: Ichi makes THF pretty hard to hurt on the way back. Strider Boots also become available to THF at level 20. Only job that rivals THF in this range as pullar is RNG, with Wide Scan rivalling Flee for utility.

THF 30-59: Trick Attack

Tank: 1, Terrible
Nearly impossible to hold hate as a THF by this point.

DD: 4, Good
Damage over time from regular hits is only OK, but the spike damage from Sneak Attack and Trick Attack push THF back towards the top of the damage lists in this range, not to mention Viper Bite at level 33 makes Thieves obvious choices for skillchain closers to produce Distortion skillchains, since almost everything you fight will be weak to Ice damage.

Puller: 4, Good
Rangers still give THF a run for their money, but Shadowbind at level 40 gives them a new tool to keep unruly enemies at bay.

THF 60-73: Assassin

DD/Support: 4, Good
THF now have the ability to assign damage and hate spikes at will using Trick Attack + Assassin trait, while still being able to add more damage using Sneak Attack.

Puller: 4, Good
No change in overall power balance amongst pulling jobs, except that Bards start showing up as good pullers around level 65 due to their ability to wander away from the party long before a monster is dead.

THF 74-75: Utsusemi: Ni

Solo/Tank: THF/NIN become excellent soloists after acquiring Utsusemi: Ni. Low damage is offset by extremely good evasion. When paired with low-enmity generators like Bards, can be even more effective in small groups.

DD/Support: 3, Decent
Other melee jobs catch up and pass THF in overall damage despite the spike damage from Sneak Attack and Trick Attack. Dagger damage is still low, however.

Puller: 4, Good
Bards are the puller of choice at high levels, with their ability to be effective and contributing for over 2 minutes between song casts. THF still have their natural speed and evasion advantages, but lose out on damage potential if they abandon combat before a monster is dead to pull the next one.


Icemage