Sneak + Trick on someone AFK bug?

[Narru]

Hmm, interesting situation we had last night. Crawler's nest fighting Beetles. 2 Blink Tanks, 2 Thieves, Whm, Blm.

One of the Blink Tanks went afk, and we decided to play a trick on him ^^

Other tank positioned himself for fuidama off the afk person, and I did it....it seemed to do the Sneak Attack + Trick Attack damage...but didn't turn on him. The other thf came around and did fuidama off the afk person again...nothing. It remained on the main tank....

Has anyone seen this happen before? The person afk was just standing there, in our PT, and had no autoattack on. But he came back before we had a chance to test it further ><

I'd be interested in seeing if this is a bug, if so, could be pretty powerful. Anyone interested in testing this?

[Mithrankittycat]

Gimp thf do too little damage to outhate a provoke :3

[Narru]

When both ninjas were there, we were ping ponging the aggro between the two quiet easily regardless of provokes.

The damage we did was over 350+ per fuidama done on that afk fella, so that wasn't the issue. Besides, we did it before the main blink tank did 2 provokes, so....

I'd like someone to try this if they have time. I'll try it next time I'm playing my Thf.

[Korendil]

I haven't had Trick Attack for very long, but there was one time I tried Tricking off the tank before he actually engaged (I had mistimed my prefired Snick and didn't want the timer to run down), and it didn't work.

Today, I was running through jugner with some folks hunting for a Beastmen's Banner. We got aggrod by some easy prey, and I, in fun, Tricked off the Bard who was standing in perfect alignment with the back of the monster. Again, it didn't work. I got aggro at least. I think I was also in Sneak only damage range, but I'm not to sure on that one.

What I'm seeing is that you can't use Trick Attack on people who aren't engaged with the monster. I could just be hallucinatory, though. ^_^

[Obano]

May be intentional, to keep nasty, nasty thieves from griefing people.

[Awntawn]

hmm actually might makes sense

if the person has absolutely no emnity to the monster, it isn't increased through trick, but the conditions for extra damage are still present. Interesting :p

[Junun]

I've trick attacked behind afk group members before and turned agro onto them. One of our secondary melees was afk one time, and positioning happened to be right, tricked behind him, turned mob on him^^

[stray]

it's more fun to hide on someone who's afk on follow in all honesty. or break out a tonko:ichi.

after 15 minutes everything is fair.

but back to the topic... the premise of SA/TA is compounded hate... if someone's afk, not engaged, and already taken a few hits, there's not a whole lot of hate there for them. hence if they get aggro it'll only be for a split second and in conjuction with the fact the main tank is constantly gaining hate, odds are it won't bother turning.

which is why if your trick dummy provokes and engages, and u fuidama off main tank it'll usually always turn, but if they provoke, engage, anything else... it becomes a pain.

[Korendil]

Mkay, I guess both times I actually /was/ slightly misaligned or something. My bad.

[PhoR]

trick attack has been flakey at best lately.

i think it was 2 weeks ago that a patch seemed to mess things up. since about two weeks ago, sometimes my tricks put hate on people standing to the side of the mob instead of the person i'm tricking behind.

I was also able to get sneak+trick dmg to go off when a friend stood behind a mob but didn't engage, but the mob aggro'd me instead of him, even though the trick succeeded.

i think they screwed something up.

leave it to square-enix to nerf our job horribly by getting rid of yokodama, and then mess up our hate control alltogether.

[puhfyn]

Originally posted by PhoR
trick attack has been flakey at best lately.

i think it was 2 weeks ago that a patch seemed to mess things up. since about two weeks ago, sometimes my tricks put hate on people standing to the side of the mob instead of the person i'm tricking behind.

I was also able to get sneak+trick dmg to go off when a friend stood behind a mob but didn't engage, but the mob aggro'd me instead of him, even though the trick succeeded.

i think they screwed something up.

leave it to square-enix to nerf our job horribly by getting rid of yokodama, and then mess up our hate control alltogether.

yeah our bard was singing a song off to the side and my fuidama got on him a few times, i don't think he was engaged to enemy, but he did have hate from his songs. even though 2ndary tank was in position, fuidama landed on brd who was off to the side

[sudo]

it really is pretty flakey...

I just got trick attack last night and was pulling it off easily cause I had good party cooperation but it doesn't seem to do anything at all.

Sneak attack alone was about 100
trick attack alone was about 54

sneak + trick was about 190 ish

so I know the trick attack went off but for whatever reasons I got the agro and I don't have a clue what happened. The alternate tank had to provoke it off of me to save my taru butt.

And also the fabled hate control doesn't seem to be working for me. the following happened:

2nd tank (sam) provoked, main tank (war) got into positon, I sa+ta for 189, the monster turns to main tank (sometimes or hits me), then the main tank provokes (things look good so far)

and then the blm casts water 2 and does 110 damage
then the manodraga runs at the blm and the 2nd tank had to provoke it off the blm which meant that the sam was now tanking again since I couldn't get the hate to stick to the war somehow

So this whole thing means that his provoke and my sa + ta was less hate than 2 provokes.

All of that took a lot of work to set the whole thing set up and going right. I think we were actually killing things slower after I got trick than before I had it.

I don't know what happened to thieves but I think SE broke the job when they nerfed it so much.

[Narru]

Sudo, looks to me like you're doing it wrong.

Well first off the major damage comes in at 33, when you get Viper Bite, and set up a Distortion renkei. Do that, and I guarantee you you'll be impressed...

Ok, a tip or two for SA+TA.

- Use first person view. I like to do this to make absoluetely sure I'm lined up. Autoattack on, change view to first person, line up real quick, then change view back to normal. Then perform fuidama.

- Make sure you're facing the back of your tank/trick buddy ... NOT the back of the monster. In a perfect world, all three of you (monster, tank, and you) will be lined up perfectly in a straight line. But as we all know, sometimes that doesn't happen. So what's the next best thing? Line up behind your tank, so even if you fail the Sneak Attack part (gotta be perfectly lined up behind monster), you don't fail the Trick Attack part (gotta be perfectly lined up behind your tank) and get creamed. Normally I do 300-400 damage with SA+TA at level 40, but if I fail and only do SA, it'll still be 100-150 damage of hate for the tank. I think I'd rather do less damage for more aggro control during the fight.

[Arximiro]

i tested this the other day in Kon highlands. I had some newbs from my ls with me around lvl 12 and i told one of them to stand beind a sheep and i tricked off him. i got the trick damage im almost positive it was about 198 and i was only lvl 31 at the time. It only had a sliver of hp left after that so i didnt get to see if he got aggro he may have got 1 hit i dont remember, I jus remember the good damage.

[Break]

i've heard tons of stories from LS members and friends and whatnot about THFs tricking off of AFK people, the DRG's wyvern, and bystanding mosnters

anyone know if that stuff is possible?