[Ziero]

Technically, they kind of did add in the new Avatars...to the missions right now. You just can't use them as Avatars until the next update.

Spoilers

All the Cait Siths merge into one being for a fight and you also fight Atomos...so guess who you're getting

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Ziero

Technically, they kind of did add in the new Avatars...to the missions right now. You just can't use them as Avatars until the next update.

Spoilers

All the Cait Siths merge into one being for a fight and you also fight Atomos...so guess who you're getting

Bismark!

[Ziero]

Lawlrus!

His 2 hour is Bukkit Smash!

[Ketaru]

Originally Posted by Aksannyi

RDM has no right to bitch. They got an update last time around. A fairly shitty one, IMO, but an update regardless.

Well if that's what he meant then I did miss the point. It seemed like he was complaining about this particular update, and yes, I did see some RDMs begging for an update this time around.

Huh? Who told you the update was shitty? I happen to think it's better than anything the job could (realistically) hope for. Even though Composure was meant to streamline frontline melee, it ended up being a way to somewhat streamline backline casting too. The Enspell IIs are kind of niche, to be sure. But I find myself using Enstone II a lot to ensure that Silence will land.

If I had to beg for an update now, it would be to let RDM use the Cobra Unit melee stuff. Some of that Subtle Blow and Accuracy would go a long way to addressing all that "RDM feeds the mob TP" stuff I keep seeing. And that body...+11 Acc...

EDIT: To be fair, BLU can use both Cobra Unit mage and Cobra Unit melee pieces (their uses for the mage stuff is questionable, but that's besides the point) while they can only use Yigit between Yigit and Pahluwan from ToAU. RDM can only use Cobra Unit mage stuff, but from ToAU, can use both Yigit and Pahluwan.

[Darkhound]

I am not "complaining" I am just a bit dissapointed that we have not received what we have been promised for so long, neither am I saying that I want SMN to be overpowered with a "one kill 10 mile radius BP"

I have been a SMN since I started playing this game back in 2002/3 cant remember (US PS2 launch that is) and I have been other jobs grow VERY powerful. I can see BLMs and RDM trio/duo or EVEN solo despot! I have seen the same TRIO-DUO Faust, Zip, Ulli, heck even 4 man Mother Globe!!! If that speaks of "balance" then summoner is CLEARLY underpowered.

I consider myself an "above average SMN" with good gera, nice "swap in gear" and still i find it VERY hard to solo what other job take care with ease.

Phoenix, Bahamut, Odin, Siren, Hades, Quezalcoatl, Alexander, Atomos, Kjata, Sylph, Azura etc etc etc. There is more than enough potential for a few more.

Yes, SMN has been given a few changes here and there. I have to admit that the new AOE range is a huge improvement (Hastega or example), the WARD and RAGE independant timers was algo a good thing, so is Elemental Syphon but still, I would like to see the day when I can solo despot, or even duo it with another fellow SMN. Heck, RDM can OWN the PRIME avatars with "ease" we cant..... or if anyone out there has some superb technique by all means share.

My point is... the SMN is way way way underpowerd that what it whould be.
I know that I am not here alone... we are NOT asking to be overpowred, just a bit more around the same league with others.

Yes... yes.... windblade is "ok" vs kirin, so is diabolos, I got full merits, and ACP body piece augumented, etc etc etc and still seing damn titan MISS on a pot... makes me rage!!!

Giving us 2 new avatars gives us hope.. new possiblities of what we can do and on how we can contirbiute to a party, battles etc.

Thanks

[Ketaru]

While I myself think SMN needs to be fixed, and while new avatars would be cool, I think it's the wrong approach to look towards the new avatars to fix SMN's situation.

If the new avatar turned out to be something sickly powerful in some way, it would just be a testiment to how overpowered that avatar is when it's the only one you end up using. SMN's problem certainly isn't versatility, their full breadth of abilities across all their avatars is proof of that.

It would be comparable to giving PUP an Onion Knight automaton that was capable of casting all white and black magic, using Drakesbane-like WSs, with an immaculate AI. Yeah, it would make PUP much more desirable. But it would clearly be an adjustment that lacks imagination and would only speak to how broken the rest of the job really is in how the job actually works.

SE is clearly not going to make an avatar to render obsolete all avatars. So, if you're looking for a job fix, new shinies are the least of your problems...

[Darkhound]

No, I am not saying that I would like an avatar that makes all others obsolete. It is pretty bad as it is atm.
Most of the summoers, at lest the ones I know and the ones on the server use Garuda, Diabolos and Titan most of the time, that's it.

I do not know what Avatar or avatars we will get, or if we ever will, but I do think that most of us want some and see what it can bring.

[Ziero]

Did you just say Smn was broken because it couldn't solo things a Rdm can?

You do realize Rdm is, and has always been incredibly over powered in regards to soloing high lvl HNMs right? Even back in 02/03, Rdms were the kings of soloing, something that no other jobs at all can touch. While I won't say Smn is perfect, it's not and could use some tweaks, it's far from being absolutely terrible. It's gotten a LOT of boosts, as much if not more then most jobs (Wars and Monks only got fairly useless JAs in the past 6 years). You're getting your Avatars, they'll be in the next update because they were pretty much revealed in this one. So cool your jets and be happy with the few, yet highly useful tweaks you have gotten.

If you're really concerned about how well the Smn job performs then you should worry about things other then new Avatars, because getting a shiny new pet won't instantly fix the real problems of the job.

[Darkhound]

Ziero:

I totally agree with everthing you said. I have been a SMN for all my Vanadiel life and while I got other 75's, SMN is what I enjoy, is what I like and it is what I am. I have learned to make the most out of it as it is. Yet, like all other jobs, some changes would be nice.

I do not think or even want to rely my hopes like you said, in 1 or two new pets. That wont solve the issues. But the idea of having a new avatar that might be us different abilities, anything that we have not seen or something totally different is refreshing.

I would like also, for example, to be able to solo more, like the way a BST can for instance?

I read your "spoiler" on who you think tha new avatar will be,



What about the rest, any other theories on what the other can be?
What makes you think it will happen in the next update?

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Ketaru

Huh? Who told you the update was shitty? I happen to think it's better than anything the job could (realistically) hope for.

It was disappointing considering the few RDMs who actually want to melee at endgame. Nothing about playing RDM changed in the slightest, just the use of Composure, which actually drives me nuts because I can't see when my own buffs will wear to restart the cycle. It didn't make the job any more interesting. It just made us have to cast Refresh and Haste on ourselves less. Big fat MEH. A lot of RDMs were happy with it but I thought it was disappointing.

Enspell II's ... I didn't even bother with them. I can't remember the last time I meleed something on my RDM.

[Armando]

There's no way to fix the RDM situation realistically anyways. All the classes get fucked over by the lack of job/ability customization. The only way for a RDM to melee is if there had been a system in place that allowed you to maximize your meleeing prowess at the expense of not maximizing your casting powers. WAR will always be pigeonholed into using Axe/Great Axe despite the job being touted as being a master of all weapons, and PLD will always be restricted to swords, for similar reasons.

[Malacite]

Well, if RDM had a trait that allowed them to cast while still swinging their sword (as well as an A- rating to match BLU) it could work. RDM's major issue IMO is the magical discrepancy;

Where as BLU can deal heavy damage with both melee & magic, RDM's nukes are lackluster. They only get Tier 3 and have a C+ rated skill IIRC (might even be C-) and even with the best gear, they are a joke in the face of a BLM or SCH. And with all the casting a RDM does in the party, meleeing is not a good idea unless you want to break the up the pace of the PT. The only way to fix this would be to add a self-target only Refresh II, but then you'd have major balance issues with RDM solo.

On topic, this is a dead horse. I'm royally pissed off too but what can you do about it? Either wait for the next update or quit the game really


We've debated what SMN needs to death and all have our own opinions on what SE should do but the job has been in dire need of serious adjustments for some time, and new avatars, while cool, are not the answer.

[odjnlinus]

why are RDMs wanting another Update anyway? That class is already well-rounding in terms of everything. Lemme guess the poor RDMs was to deal more damage since the sword is not doing their job, or maybe they was wishing for the Accession JA SCH's got? or how about when WHMs got Esuna and stuff.

What more do you RDMs want, please someone give me a non-biased AND biased opinion on this matter. They also can solo damn near any NM in the game, do they want the ability to solo PW as well????.

I am not hating on the job if that's what many of you are thinking, just wanna know why RDMs feel to need to get an update every single update.

Someone run down a list of possible things RDMs want.


EDIT>>>> Or maybe they want the ATK power of a DRK so they can truely be part of the other DD jobs.

[Ketaru]

Originally Posted by odjnlinus

why are RDMs wanting another Update anyway? That class is already well-rounding in terms of everything. Lemme guess the poor RDMs was to deal more damage since the sword is not doing their job, or maybe they was wishing for the Accession JA SCH's got? or how about when WHMs got Esuna and stuff.

What more do you RDMs want, please someone give me a non-biased AND biased opinion on this matter. They also can solo damn near any NM in the game, do they want the ability to solo PW as well????.

I am not hating on the job if that's what many of you are thinking, just wanna know why RDMs feel to need to get an update every single update.

Someone run down a list of possible things RDMs want.

Getting off your high horse might be a good start. I already said I don't realistically want anything.

Fixing the fact the damage dealt by Enspell II is calculated by your Enhancing Magic at the time of each swing rather than at the time of casting might be another.

[Yellow Mage]

All I wanted was something that made me stop dreading approaching level 50. Now I have that. So I am happy.