[Ziero]

Odin and Alex do have stories around them

Long story short, if they both existed in our world, they'd try to kill each other and cause the end of the world.

fyi, that's bad

[RandomKG3]

Square has been promising not one, but two new avatars for months now. At first, the logical conclusion seemed to be Odin and Alexander, but now that so much time has passed with no further progress on the potential release of even one new avatar (let alone two), and with so many huge releases on the horizon, I bet that FFXI is being secretly neglected in favor of moving the more talented developers to their new MMO project. I'm personally not holding my breath for any kind of new avatar, despite Square's promises to the contrary. If the avatar is from ToAU, it's long past overdue. If it's from the new WotG expansion it's too early. Either way, it just doesn't look promising.

[Firewind]

Anyone having Odin, Alexander or Bahamut would break the game so much that even Knights of Round would pop up and demand their overpowered summon pedestal back.

[Eiyoko]

Personally I don't think we'll be getting Odin, Alexander, Bahamut or Phoenix. Atomos, I'm not so sure of, though I'm somewhat confident of Ixion. Cait Sith is still and odd one for me.

Reasons why...ToAU and CoP spoilers

Odin has Zantetsuken. I doubt SE will give summoners an instant-death move. Besides, isn't he the mega boss fight for Einherjar or something?

Alexander is already the final boss for ToAU. That coupled with the fact that his 2-hour is practically the same as Carbuncles (only Alex's is quite powerful in comparison) and the fact that he doesn't even move kinda makes it a no-no.

Phoenix is basically dead. There was a hint of her in a quest somewhere in the CoP realm that hinted at a future pact quest, but I'm still unsure. I would still love to get Phoenix though; she's always been my favorite.

Bahamut is too big. In power and size. That's about all there is to him. Besides, there has already been a "No, you're not getting him!" announcement.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Ziero

fyi, that's bad

lol

Originally Posted by RandomKG3

Square has been promising not one, but two new avatars for months now.

Actually, they said "multiple". Not 2, not 3, just some number greater than 1. My guess is 6. One for each "elemental" element. With a focus on traits for having them out as opposed to activating abilities, I believe they said. Likely (hopefully) designed to be used in between the summoning of original avatars for effects (and the occasional spirit for Siphoning).

[Ziero]

Originally Posted by RandomKG3

Square has been promising not one, but two new avatars for months now. At first, the logical conclusion seemed to be Odin and Alexander, but now that so much time has passed with no further progress on the potential release of even one new avatar (let alone two), and with so many huge releases on the horizon, I bet that FFXI is being secretly neglected in favor of moving the more talented developers to their new MMO project. I'm personally not holding my breath for any kind of new avatar, despite Square's promises to the contrary. If the avatar is from ToAU, it's long past overdue. If it's from the new WotG expansion it's too early. Either way, it just doesn't look promising.

So much wrong here it hurts.

Originally Posted by Eiyoko

Personally I don't think we'll be getting Odin, Alexander, Bahamut or Phoenix. Atomos, I'm not so sure of, though I'm somewhat confident of Ixion. Cait Sith is still and odd one for me.

Reasons why...ToAU and CoP spoilers

Odin has Zantetsuken. I doubt SE will give summoners an instant-death move. Besides, isn't he the mega boss fight for Einherjar or something?

Alexander is already the final boss for ToAU. That coupled with the fact that his 2-hour is practically the same as Carbuncles (only Alex's is quite powerful in comparison) and the fact that he doesn't even move kinda makes it a no-no.

Phoenix is basically dead. There was a hint of her in a quest somewhere in the CoP realm that hinted at a future pact quest, but I'm still unsure. I would still love to get Phoenix though; she's always been my favorite.

Bahamut is too big. In power and size. That's about all there is to him. Besides, there has already been a "No, you're not getting him!" announcement.

The real reasons why we won't get these summons are

Spoilers

Odin and Alexander's sole purpose in our would is to battle and destroy each other. They are two opposing forces that when they collide while wipe out entire civilizations. On top of that, niether are the types to be controlled. Storywise, Odin chooses one being in our world to be his avatar, a way to allow him to project his presence into our realm. That pact is brought about through an overwhelming desire based on negative emotions (hatred, vengance and all that) and as such you have to be inherintly corrupt to be his vessel. He grants you his power in exchange for allowing him to eventually take over and appear on our plane of existance and spread his darkness.

Alex is the equal and opposite of Odin, though he doesn't seem to have the same pact making abilities as his horsebacked rival. But his spirit will consume and overwrite any who attempt to control him with the singular purpose of purifing everything with his light. He's still a solely destructive force, he's just more up front about it and wishes to bath the world in a searing light to erase all evil...and just about anything else. These two "avatars" are both tools of destructions, though both have different methods of doing so. And if they were to ever meet on the same plane of existance, then they would be consumed with the urge to annihilate each other...and any land unfortunate enough to be host to that battle.

As for Bahamut, he's the Wyrmking, a being sent to destroy all live on Vana D'iel. And though story wise there may be work arounds to get past that (his mission is technically a pact of sorts) game wise I doubt it would ever happen. SE said they wanted Bahamut to be an incredibly powerful entity in this game and the thought of people calling him at their whim just didn't work for them.

Pheonix on the other hand is still possible. Death is nothing to Pheonix, it's entire purpose is to die and be reborn in a pillar of fire. And seeing as it has already lent it's strength out to defend the people of Vana D'iel, it's entirely possible that it will eventually come back as something we can use.

As for the WotG "avatars", Cait Sith doesn't seem to even been an Avatar, niether does Atomos. But I will admit it would be funny to see people running around with giant gaping maws floating behind them. And Ixion, as I said before, is still possible because the HNM just doesn't seem to be the real Ixion. Though that could just mean there will be other Ixion type NMs throughout missions and sidequests, but still there's only one type of monster in game that radiates that always present glowing aura. And those are Avatars.

[Sir Cledwin]

Another thing I recently heard... from another Summoner friend who heard it from another SMN who was in a party with her... is that we as Summoners will be getting "Cure IV", has anyone else heard this detail? As far as I can tell, the only Avatars that would come even close to qualifying for Cure IV are Alexander and Carbuncle... and possibly Pheonix. So unless they release Pheonix and Alexander, I really do not see Carbuncle getting Cure IV, or as it would be Healing Ruby IV... seeing as how its level 65 ability is Healing Ruby II.

[pixiehawk]

Light Elemental gets Cure IV at 41, could that be what she meant? It's a random ability, no way to make it proc, but still... every SUM that has a Light Elemental has a chance of doing it.

[Kitalrez]

Originally Posted by Ziero

So much wrong here it hurts.



The real reasons why we won't get these summons are

Spoilers

Odin and Alexander's sole purpose in our would is to battle and destroy each other. They are two opposing forces that when they collide while wipe out entire civilizations. On top of that, niether are the types to be controlled. Storywise, Odin chooses one being in our world to be his avatar, a way to allow him to project his presence into our realm. That pact is brought about through an overwhelming desire based on negative emotions (hatred, vengance and all that) and as such you have to be inherintly corrupt to be his vessel. He grants you his power in exchange for allowing him to eventually take over and appear on our plane of existance and spread his darkness.

Alex is the equal and opposite of Odin, though he doesn't seem to have the same pact making abilities as his horsebacked rival. But his spirit will consume and overwrite any who attempt to control him with the singular purpose of purifing everything with his light. He's still a solely destructive force, he's just more up front about it and wishes to bath the world in a searing light to erase all evil...and just about anything else. These two "avatars" are both tools of destructions, though both have different methods of doing so. And if they were to ever meet on the same plane of existance, then they would be consumed with the urge to annihilate each other...and any land unfortunate enough to be host to that battle.

As for Bahamut, he's the Wyrmking, a being sent to destroy all live on Vana D'iel. And though story wise there may be work arounds to get past that (his mission is technically a pact of sorts) game wise I doubt it would ever happen. SE said they wanted Bahamut to be an incredibly powerful entity in this game and the thought of people calling him at their whim just didn't work for them.

Pheonix on the other hand is still possible. Death is nothing to Pheonix, it's entire purpose is to die and be reborn in a pillar of fire. And seeing as it has already lent it's strength out to defend the people of Vana D'iel, it's entirely possible that it will eventually come back as something we can use.

As for the WotG "avatars", Cait Sith doesn't seem to even been an Avatar, niether does Atomos. But I will admit it would be funny to see people running around with giant gaping maws floating behind them. And Ixion, as I said before, is still possible because the HNM just doesn't seem to be the real Ixion. Though that could just mean there will be other Ixion type NMs throughout missions and sidequests, but still there's only one type of monster in game that radiates that always present glowing aura. And those are Avatars.

Ok, to that I reply with:

Spoilers

Have you played through "Waking the Beast" yet? That's the purpose of EVERY celestial avatar. They say as much in that quest and CoP. Promathia's first "death" sows seeds of him throughout everything. In the Zilaart, this creates the Kuluu, and eventually leads to the evolution of the five races, tonberries and other beastmen. In other animals, this hyper evolves them, creating the Terrestrial Avatars. The Five Terrestrial avatars band together with the Kuluu to oppose the Zilaart plan to return everything to Paradise the first time. This creates the feedback wave from the destruction of Vahzl/Fei Yin, the destruction/phasing of Al'Tieau, and the subsequent degeneration of the Kuluu into tonberries. When you fight the Celestial Avatars, you're going against the original gods, there's 6 of them, plus two more for Odin and Alex, overseen by the two big gods of Creation and Destruction, Alatana and Promathia. Check out Hall of the Gods to confirm this. Those 8 statues are the Celestial Avatars in a formless state as they appeared to the Zilaart. Next you add in the legends of each of the summonable avatars being bound by Altana to a sleeping god as a physical form for that god. We in turn, fight only their dream state, because as Carbuncle states, if the gods wake up fully, they'll seek to complete the Zilaart's work and return everything to "Paradise".

Odin and Alex aren't different than the other Celestial Avatars, they're just awakened fully. Odin resides in an underworld, Alexander resides in the heavens. More accurately, Alexander resides in Al'Zadaal before it fell into the sea, and again when it gets raised. While we don't have protocrystals, we essentially complete the binding legend for each of them when we play through TAU. Odin binds with the physical form of Luzaf to create his avatar, Alex binds with Razfaud to do the same. Then they fight it out. They're not fighting it out because hate each other, they're fighting because their elements are in opposition, and each one wants to "purify" the world with their element. Alex wants to sear the world's evil away, Odin wants to drag everything into the underworld. Just like Carbuncle tells us every other Celestial Avatar wants to do. Look at your elemental chart again. Ifrit probably isn't real keen on Leviathan or Shiva, but he's not in direct opposition to either, like Alex and Odin are. If Ifrit is released, he'll try to purify the world by burning everything, melting Shiva's work in the north while doing it, before Leviathan comes along and drowns everything.

By that line of reasoning, it would make sense to give us Odin and Alexander, because we already completed the circle with TAU. They exist now in avatar forms, all they need is some kind of access point to the realms they sleep in, like the protocrystals the others all have. Also, while Zantesuken is awesome, it's not beyond the realm of the nerfable. Look at Ruinous Omen in dynamis. What used to be a massive AE percentage down move, basically morphs into Howling Moon's AE Dark blast when you get to the higher levels. I did 800~ damage to several mobs, then I got partial resists from several others, none of these were the same percentage of damage, like you see when Diabolos uses it on you in the mission/quest. You could easily do the same thing to Zantesuken.

As I argued before, we kind of need these two to finish off the burstable spells. I can make light and dark chains to burst off of long before I can make "Light" and "Dark", it follows that we should probably have a way to create those bursts before the mid-50s when we get Meteorite and Nether Blast. Banish II/Holy from Alex, and two dark moves from Odin would fit this bill in the appropriate level ranges. Given what I just went over, it would also make more sense to do it for these two than for say, Bahamut or Pheonix, which don't have as close a link to stuff we already have/need.

Not to say they couldn't do it, however. Again, Diabolos is/was hard the first few times people faced him. (Remember when he was released?) If they can create a battle there that can be beaten and make him summonable after, I'm pretty sure they can add others.

[Sir Cledwin]

Originally Posted by pixiehawk

Light Elemental gets Cure IV at 41, could that be what she meant? It's a random ability, no way to make it proc, but still... every SUM that has a Light Elemental has a chance of doing it.

No, I do not think Light Elementals cure IV is what this person meant. Though I could be mistaken I suppose.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Sir Cledwin

Another thing I recently heard... from another Summoner friend who heard it from another SMN who was in a party with her...

This sounds reliable.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

This sounds reliable.

http://www.demotivateus.com/posters/...al-poster1.jpg

[godsaiyan]

Well i'm in the mind set that despite loving the smn, its highly unlikely we'll see a new avatar anytime soon. Though if 1 is to be released, i wouldn't mind RedXIII. I know wot ur all thinking, he is a character NOT an avatar. But i wud love calling him out and attacking with his fang attacks. That oir maybe even a Golden chocobo avatar. that pecks and uses buffs like haste.

From personal expirence with SE, u never know

[Neomage]

You know what I want to see?

FAT CHOCOBO!

[Darkhound]

I Personally think that we will get some "Worthless" avatars.

SE mentioned in this past FANFEST that there were 2 large avatars and that on the NEXT fanfest, we were going to be wondering HOW to use them. That is what I recall