SMN Questions

[Vadrace]

So, I've been reading here on the forums a lot, but dont really post much... ok, not at all really.. :D

I just started playing again, and one of my characters I was planning on leveling SMN again. Last time I stopped, I got it to 30... so thats where I'll be starting.

I've read alot about how most people think the job is broken, and that their melee is garbage and what not... I was just wonderin... How bad is their melee? I'm not super worried about BP timers, as I'm 2 boxing (DONT THROW STONES! ) and I'm going to be using it to supplement our static's healer and buffing (eventually). BUT! I want to be able to kill stuff when I eventually get up to 75. So another question is: Is it worth it? I have BLM at 52 on the same toon, but really liked the idea of SMN over BLM... but if its as gimp as everyone says... I'm unsure of it.

Also, as SE stated anything about fixing current problems with SMN? I've read that they plan to add some other avatars (I dont know if its true, just something I read trollin), but whats the point of adding more avatars when the base class is ... meh? I think they hired someone from SOE to handle job fixes. :D

Also... Hello everyone!

[Dim Mahk]

To me SMN is one of my most favorite jobs. I actually stoped leveling my RDM (level 60) to level my SMN. I would say for my own selfish reasons that SMN gets mistreated in parties (for the most part). playing a dumbed down healer role. but besides me venting, I would say yes the have terrible melee with staffs and what nots. How ever you must think of a SMN pet as a extension of yourself. they do all the "real" damage. you can add in doing damage if u want in exchange for added hate, but SMN's are squeshy.

SMN hit a great milestone with Free carby, AF gear and Elemental staffs.

[assumedvigilance]

hello and summoner is one of those jobs where you can have lots of fun in the right parties. i once built a party with me as mnk, nin, blu, smn (for healing as there was no whm or rdm), thf. we couldn't find a 6th so i invited the only other person looking who was another smn. we were out camping in bibiki bay i think it was. fighting catoblepas or something. anyway, we asked the 2nd smn to fight with avatars and mb. well we set up our skillchains so i and someone would do a light skillchain and the blu would self skill chain light aswell. well once we did this once and the smn got huge numbers on the mb the other smn joined in too. we were going through these mobs so fast man i think we cleared the map. it was one of the funnest parties i had ever been in. with out this i think smn could be a bit boring may aswell be a whm...

edit:fixxed for a memory error, but otherwise intact

[Phanex]

now this was right before the ToAU came out, the blu would self skill chain light aswell. ...

I'm sure others might bash you for this, or bash me for being wrong, but didn't Blu come out with ToAu?

But yeah, one of my statics had a SMN in it and they did some great dding.

[Vadrace]

When I asked about melee damage, I meant the Avatars melee damage, not mine. : P

[Eiyoko]

To answer the OP...

The summoner itself is weak, so the avatars to all the work. The avatar isn't as strong as an actual player, but they can help out well enough. You'll be able to dish out good damage at levels other than 75 but it's not always simple.

As for "current problems" with summoner, there aren't really any. Summoner, the way it is set up, does just fine. Be prepared to deal with Perpetuation (MP drain per tic) to keep your avatars out. You'll also be asked to heal, but if you're in a static you won't have to worry so much about that. Learn the ins and outs of your blood pacts and make sure you've got appropriate avatars before you get started. You don't necessarily need Diabolos, and you don't need Fenrir either (but you may, on rare occasion, run into some bastard elitists who will boot you if you don't have him. Again, if you're in a static, you won't need to worry).

Elemental Siphon was recently added and helps a lot, so if you have spirits you can gain a good amount of MP back instantly. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with spirits; they have an IQ the same level as a goldfish (casting shock instead of casting Burst really got on my nerves with my Thunder Spirit, lmao).

Summoner is a fun job and the AF quests are fun too. ^^ Also, hello to you too!

[Pteryx]

Glad to hear you have a static with a real healer in it. That should help you actually play Summoner.

As far as avatar melee goes, the issue isn't as much being wussy as it is being wussy for the MP cost. Other pets aren't a drain on immediate, pace-defining party resources like avatars are, and neither avatars nor summoners themselves get anything to make up for this. You can't even build TP over multiple fights because in order to rest for MP you have to dismiss the avatar.

OTOH, since you'll always have a real healer on hand, you at least can make good use of Blood Pacts. Buffing aside, I recommend learning how to skillchain with your avatars' physical pacts. That's the best DD capacity SMN has outside of Astral Flow.

I also recommend levelling SCH as a subjob. While its abilities don't directly help SMN's, it will help you save MP while you're waiting out timers. I recommend /WHM to 35, /SCH from 36-49, /WHM again for 50-59, and /SCH from there on out unless you need Erase, due to when various Cures are gained. -- Pteryx

[Vadrace]

I'll have a COR with Evoker's Roll and a RDM for refresh. Can you drop the Avatar's perp cost below a certain level or does it reach a point that you can't drop it anymore? I'm hoping that I can get some -perp cost stuff and have the roll and refresh on me so that my only big expenditure in MP would be BPs. I plan on being our groups haster, since we have a lot of melee in our group, and I'd like to keep something off our RDM's plate.

[Malacite]

Glad to hear you have a static with a real healer in it. That should help you actually play Summoner.

QFT

[Kitalrez]

Yes, you can actually reach points where you'll gain mp with the avatars out, given the right -perp gear and refresh effects. -perp does cap out at 0 for an avatar, but refreshes don't so long as they're stackable types, IE Juice and RDM Refresh don't.

You can go the backup healer route, although other routes are starting to open up to us. One thing I would advise is to level a THF sub as soon as you can. TH is great for farming, and later on you might actually be able to DD in a group with this. SATA'd Retribution is kind of awe inspiring, and I'm certainly taking my sub higher than 20 to try this out first chance I get. It's rare to be able to do this, and Acc/STR gear for SMN isn't as common as others, but it looks to be worth exploring at least for farming purposes. You make a very decent to very good DD in the endgame, and if you can take the time earlier on to level your melee skills it'll pay off. I'm almost MP self sufficient in skillup parties now. I can also farm for a good long time without needing to rest, even on exp granting mobs.

Things to acquire:
1. Carbuncle's mitts. Join your server's SMN LS when you can, they do runs on these. Expect to have to find your own Uggalipih Offering, its considered a rite of passage in most of these.
2. Elemental staves... replace with HQs when you can, then replace those with Bahamut's even later on.
3. Carbuncle's Pole and Thrysustab. These are melee gears, you'll reach a point where you can keep Carby out without losing mp later on. At that stage, a more damaging staff is nice. The pole does spell damage as well as melee, Thrysustab is about the highest damage staff we can get pre-relic. DoT with both of these is very nice.
4. Yinyang robe. Don't bother with this one pre-71. It's highly contested almost always, and you'll just piss of other SMNs who can equip it if you go for this early.

[Pteryx]

I'll have a COR with Evoker's Roll and a RDM for refresh. Can you drop the Avatar's perp cost below a certain level or does it reach a point that you can't drop it anymore? I'm hoping that I can get some -perp cost stuff and have the roll and refresh on me so that my only big expenditure in MP would be BPs.

Wow, is that case you should be just fine. Go to town with avatar melee if you like, then.

Avatar perp cost can be reduced to no less than 0. However, for most avatars there isn't enough gear to achieve that in normal circumstances. Carby's a notable exception. Refreshes are applied after avatar perp reduction; any Refresh that doesn't offset perp is applied to you as normal.

I plan on being our groups haster, since we have a lot of melee in our group, and I'd like to keep something off our RDM's plate.

A nice sentiment, though keep in mind that to keep your party hasted 100% of the time, you'll either need to save your Wards just for that or have +10 or more in Summoning Magic skill and keep your own skill capped. Capped skill + 10 is enough to make Hastega last two minutes, which will let you use a different Ward every other time it comes up. -- Pteryx

[Vadrace]

Ah, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. How hard is it to pick up +10 skill? Is there a piece of the AF with that on it?

Thanks for all the replies guys/gals.

[IfritnoItazura]

Summoning skill equipment.

Good luck keeping your skilled capped. ^_^;

[assumedvigilance]

I'm sure others might bash you for this, or bash me for being wrong, but didn't Blu come out with ToAu?

But yeah, one of my statics had a SMN in it and they did some great dding.

yes you are right. that was a mistake, i edited it out. thanks for catching it and not killing me for it like some would normally do.

[Vadrace]

Thanks for the list IfritnoItazura.

So, Pteryx, you said that the Avatar melee wasn't really wussy, just not that great for the mp cost... Whats the average damage you would see in the upper levels as a SMN with Avatar melee, and also Bloodpacts... At 30 they seem very bleh.