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| Pink Mage Allied Ribbon of Bravery Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bastok/Illinois
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| Smn/sch
I've been running through a lot of math related to SMN/SCH recently and I wanted to bring it together into a single thread of it's own to make it more visible and useful. Everything below will be considered using our Archetypal SMN/SCH. He (or she) is naked, level 75, and has no notable merits. We'll call him "AnySMN". Potency of Elemental Siphon (2.41MP/Tick Refresh Equivalent) AnySMN has 269 Summoning Skill. The (beta) formula for Elemental Siphon from wiki is (Summoning Skill-50)x(Bonus%): 269-50 * 1.10 = 241mp per use every 5 minutes (300 seconds). That's Refresh Equivalent of 241/300*3 = 2.41 MP/Tick.Potency of Sublimation (1.56MP/Tick RE) AnySMN has about 890mp. He gets 890 * 0.25 = 222mp from sublimation at a rate of 2mp/tick or 333 seconds and has to cast Regen II (33mp) to fix it and we have a 30 second wait in between uses of Sublimation so that's 189mp/363 seconds = 0.521mp/sec (1.56mp/tick).Potency of Resting (13.75MP/Tick RE) In the example in a previous thread, I used a lot of +hMP gear. This time, I'll go with this more modest setup. For Resting, we'll give AnySMN some resting gear.The Flip-Flop Sublimation/Resting Cycle (3.54 MP/Tick RE) In order to maximize the potential of Sublimation and Resting, we need to combine them in an efficient way and be able to think about Sublimation in terms of its Rest equivalent. Rest Equivalent is the ratio of their Refresh Equivalents (this can be shown) or 1.56/13.75 = 11.3%. This means that Sublimation which is active while we're not resting if used to it's maximum potential duration (333 seconds) is roughly equal to spending 11.3% of our time resting which is huge. If, AnySMN finds that he has to rest about 25% of his time to keep his mp well stocked, using Sublimation while standing will drop his rest time down to 14%!Bringing it all Together We've got 3.54MP/T from Sublimation/Rest and 2.41MP/T from Siphon. We have Auto-Refresh for another 1MP/T, so that gives us 6.95MP/T naked without any friends.Theoretical Consequences SMN's overall RE increased by about 4mp/tick as a result of the update.
__________________ Last edited by Sabaron; 03-16-2008 at 12:50 AM. |
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| | #2 |
| I am acctually you!! Bronze Ribbon of Service | Re: Smn/sch
Wowits nice to see all that together all most makes me want to lvl SMN, almost. If it wasnt for that little pigeon hole to main heal, been there done that. (Same Reason SCH wil remain sub 40 indefinitally)
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| | #3 | |
| The Silent Protagonist Mythril Wings of Service Join Date: May 2006 Location: Windurst
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
So far, as SCH main, I've had as many opportunities to nuke as I have had to heal. When you have a Cure spell, helping others is part of the territory. Even for BLUs. Don't like it? Don't play the job. | |
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| | #4 |
| Sticky Paws Sterling Star Join Date: May 2006 Location: Southern California
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch I've been curious about that for years. ._. To be more specific, I've never seen real, measured figures for dmg/MP for melee'ing avatars.
__________________ Bamboo shadows sweep the stars, yet not a mote of dust is stirred; Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond, leaving no trace in the water. - Mugaku |
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| | #5 |
| Digital Wizard Super Moderator Holyknight Emblem Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Florida, USA
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch
One thing to look at is resting efficiency. A level 75 Summoner has Clear Mind V. It's reasonable to expect a 75 SMN to have these items: Dark/Pluto Staff: hMP+10 Errant Houppelande: hMP+5 Heirarch Belt: hMP+2 This is a worst-case scenario for resting, as there are quite a large number of other +hMP items, but they're harder to acquire. Sublimation returns (# of ticks active + 1) x 2 MP during its charging phase. From a time-based standpoint: Sublimation vs. /heal: Tick 0: 2 vs 0 Tick 1: 4 vs 0 Tick 2: 6 vs 0 Tick 3: 8 vs 0 Tick 4: 10 vs 0 Tick 5: 12 vs 0 Tick 6: 14 vs 44 Tick 7: 16 vs 87 Things get pretty lopsided after that. Realistically, then, if you have time to spend /healing for at least 6 ticks, it's always a superior option for MP to end Sublimation and start /healing, even for a single tick of rest, rather than opting to keep Sublimation up. Now, obviously there are times when you have a pet out anyway and you have no option to /heal - this is where Sublimation shines. Icemage |
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| | #6 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Auburn, ME
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| Re: Smn/sch
Another thing to take into account is that Stoneskin absorbs the damage from Sublimation (tested personally). By the time SMN/SCH gets Sublimation, they've had Earthen Ward for quite some time, allowing the SMN/SCH to rest while charging at the cost of a pact -- one that just happens to be one the party may want anyway. -- Pteryx
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| | #7 | |
| Dictionary Allied Ribbon of Glory Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Warrior
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
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| | #8 | |
| Digital Wizard Super Moderator Holyknight Emblem Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Florida, USA
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
EDIT: Just finished testing. You can also rest without Stoneskin if Sublimation has completed charging, for any reason. Icemage | |
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| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Icemage For This Useful Post: | Celeal (03-17-2008), Omgwtfbbqkitten (03-16-2008) |
| | #9 | |
| Pink Mage Allied Ribbon of Bravery Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bastok/Illinois
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| Re: Smn/sch Quote:
In order for this to be worthwhile, you have to get at least 92mp from resting which is at least 30 seconds downtime (51+53 = 104mp). Of course, if you're tossing Earthen Ward (which has an hp/mp ratio of 2.17 per person), you can assume it's going to save you we'll say 2.5 Cure III's or 115mp. If you hit yourself and the tank, the pact easily pays for itself. Of course this leads us right back to where we were before. Since the SMN doesn't have to stand, then any SMN who has a pet out is a slacker because he's not Rest/Sublimating like a good little SMN--thus crushing the idea of avatar melee without additional buffs.
__________________ Last edited by Sabaron; 03-16-2008 at 06:37 PM. | |
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| | #10 | |
| The Silent Protagonist Mythril Wings of Service Join Date: May 2006 Location: Windurst
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
Still, its good to have it confirmed. SCH main can just use Stoneskin to negate the DoT and also just use it to rest, same with SMN and Earthen Ward. | |
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| | #11 | |
| Digital Wizard Super Moderator Holyknight Emblem Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Florida, USA
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My Mood: | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
Sublimation drains 2HP/3 seconds when subbed, so a 200 damage Earthen Ward Stoneskin effect will persist for 300 seconds, or 5 minutes, during which time you can potentially recover your entire MP pool no matter how much your max is (100 ticks). I agree it's sort of an unwieldy way to use Sublimation, however. That's a lot of preparation and investment, so you'd best be really sure you're going to have that time to rest or you're actually netting negative MP. Icemage | |
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| | #12 |
| Junior Member | Re: Smn/sch
Such a good thread. hats off people. I love my SMN @ 60 and raising
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| | #13 |
| Betta Alpha Omega | Re: Smn/sch
I'm a little confused. Correct my interpretation if I'm wrong: With the use of sublimination and other /sch strategems, it's possible to keep current MP efficency for healing with more liberal use of avatars, correct? does this mean it'd be beneficial to keep, say, Carbuncle out while main healing with Sublimination active? Does this include any other avatars? |
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| | #14 | |
| Pink Mage Allied Ribbon of Bravery Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bastok/Illinois
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| Re: Smn/sch Quote:
One of the biggest effects of Sublimation is that it allows Summoners to function more effectively without a Red Mage. It also provides more MP Efficent White Magic than /WHM thus saving additional MP making it more plausible to use an avatar to melee provided your DPS/MP ratio is high enough to warrant having the avatar out in the first place which is one of the subjects of the experiments I raised at the end of the OP. It certainly justifies more liberal pact use and puts quite a few cracks in the "Summoner's shouldn't Summon" mentality of some players who expect a SMN to not use pacts except to buff them (e.g. Hastega) and focus their entire efforts on Curebotting thus making a Summoner, effectively, a gimp WHM who was only invited because a better healer wasn't available.
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| | #15 | |
| Betta Alpha Omega | Re: Smn/sch Quote:
Very interesting indeed. I'll have to level scholar to 37 and give it a shot on my summoner some time. EDIT: Also dont scholars get access to aspir? YOu havent really included it in your formulas | |
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