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| Member Bronze Ribbon of Service |
Alright, SMN seems like a pretty hot topic. And this is the big o' thread for it. To start things off, let's take a look at a quote concerning SMN. Quote:
That seems like a good idea right? Lowering perpetuation cost for avatars. But then I started thinking about it... Bahamut's Staff or a HQ Elemental Staff (Apollo's Staff) reduces the cost by 3. Penance Robe reduces the cost by 2. Nashira Gages reduces the cost by 1. Evoker's Ring reduces the cost by 1. Evoker's pigaches +1 reduces the cost by 1. And that's some of the basic equipment for lowering the cost. Summoner's Doublet and Summoner's Horn can also reduce the cost by 3 each, but they are dependant on day/weather conditions. And let's not forget about Carbuncle Mitts. So not counting those last two Summoner pieces or the mitts, it adds up to -6. Factor in SMN's auto-refresh and throw in a Yagudo drink for Refresh +3. Heck you can already get a free Carby even without the mitts. Fenrir would only be 2mp/tick, the other avatars would be 4mp/tick. And again, this isn't even counting Summoner's Doublet or Summoner's Horn. At higher level, SMN can do just fine. But let's look at that again, "at higher level" SMN can do just fine. See now, there's your problem. It's not the avatar's perpetuation cost, it's the lack of equipment to do anything about it at lower levels. Sure, there's Carbuncle Mitts, but you have to defeat a lvl 70 NM to get them... But what about the Dragon Staff? Oh right, you have to win against The Wyrmking Descends... Honestly, unless you did these before with a higher job or could get some people to help you with these, you're not going to get anything to help you with the perpetuation cost until you reach lvl 50. So, there are two things I have thought of to help with this. One or the other could work. The first would be an Exclusive item that could be an additional reward to the lvl 20 solo avatar fights. For example, "Ifrit's Ring. Ifrit perpetuation cost -1. Lv. 20 SMN" There would be one for each of the six elemental avatars. And as much as I like that idea, I know it would be a pain for SMNs to carry six rings around with them. So I came up with an alternative idea. It would be an enchantment item, probably similar to the Mana Cloak except the enchantment would be "Avatar perpetuation cost -1" (The item should be either a cloak, gloves, or a ring. And the lvl requirement could be 21+). I don't know if it should be a normal store item though. So there's a thought from me. But remember, there's more to discuss than just what I've been talking about. Like for example, how do you feel about not having Bahamut summonable? Do you think the SMN group two merits are worth it, or should they be made into normal Blood Pacts and give us new merits? Are the Astral Flow Blood Pacts worth it at higher levels or should they be changed? | |
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| | #2 |
| The Hare Administrator Steelknight Emblem | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
I haven't really thought this through so don't come down on me too hard, but what if summoners were just allowed to rest for mp while they had an avatar out? It seems to me that the drawback of not being able to rest is greater than the drawback of perpetuation cost, but I don't see why that additional caveat is required.
__________________ A trail of feelings, of awe and inspiration, should lead him to that castle: in the future: her arms enclosing him, her scent fills him with excitement, creates a moment so strong he can remember it in the past. |
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| | #3 |
| Crime Solving Rank 11 Paladin! Holyknight Emblem Join Date: May 2006 Location: None of your damn business
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
Even with all the perp-down you can get, I believe celestial avatars and diabolos still take at least 8 MP.
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| | #4 |
| The boy that never levels Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Birmingham England
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| Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
I've not had much experience with smn but I'd love to see the magus sisters in the game, while most are drooling of the thought of Odin and Alexander, I'd rather summon 3 at once lol. but thats just me being greedy as usual lol.
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| | #5 | |
| Member Bronze Ribbon of Service | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner Quote:
Make up your mind S-E! But either way, you basically get the same result. However, if they make it so each blood pact had a timer on it's own rather than one timer for the whole catagory, you might see something different. | |
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| | #7 |
| Brooklyn Rage Bronze Ribbon of Service | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
They honestly just need to redo the scaling of Perpetuation cost. It hurts low level SMN's so much that they're good for nothing but spamming Cure's. They need to make the cost lower for low level SMN's, then just raise it for when all the good equipment in the 50's and 60's kicks in.
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| | #8 |
| Crime Solving Rank 11 Paladin! Holyknight Emblem Join Date: May 2006 Location: None of your damn business
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
Seriously. At level 1, Carby and Fenrir are 2 MP. No biggie. The celestial avtars are severn and Diabolos is 3 and quickly surpasses the celestials in cost. They're not even all that stonger than carbuncle either, so WTF? (Fenrir remains the strongest I find) Seriously wtf SE? Either drop the perpetuation costs or better yet raise avatar performance based on skill level and the avatar itself (making them a little more unique apart from being separate elements) For example, Ifrit would be a heavy DD type, while Titan would have high DEF VIT ad HP and thus tank best out of the avatars. This would help add an entirely new dimension to SMN, and possibly get them into more PT roles (Having a SMN use Titan to tank mobs would be really, really cool IMO) |
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| The following user says "Thank You" to Malacite for above post: | Akashimo (08-17-2007) |
| | #9 | |
| Member Bronze Ribbon of Service | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner Quote:
Looking at the avatars, other than Carbuncle and Fenrir, it starts off with: lvl 1, 3mp/tick. lvl 10, 4mp/tick. lvl 19, 5mp/tick. The level gab in between increases in cost is 9. Looking at the later end of the scale: lvl 68, 11mp/tick. lvl 71, 12mp/tick. lvl 74, 13mp/tick. Now the cost goes up every 3 levels. | |
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| | #10 | |
| Nekoai Nanashi Allied Ribbon of Glory Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dumfries, Virgina
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner Quote:
Seriously though, I like the idea of boosts based on them. Based on the elemental defuffs, and general elemetals spell line and random stuff to noticed Ifirit = STR/ATK Ramuh = DEX/Crits Titan = VIT/DEF Garuda = AGI/EVA/Haste Levithan = MND/Cures? Shiva = INT/Paralyze? Carbuncle = chr? Fenrir = Stats/modifiers? Diabolos = rdm? | |
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| | #11 | |
| The Hare Administrator Steelknight Emblem | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner Quote:
Maintaining Fenrir for one minute at level 30 costs 100 mp, which really isn't that much. It's about the same as a blm casting two Water II or a whm casting two Cure III. One solid minute of resting at the same level regains 123 mp. A blm or a whm can cast their two spells and sit for the rest of the minute, or cast, sit for 5 ticks and cast again, and break even on mp. A summoner loses that mp AND the ability to rest, which is basically the same as losing 223 mp for every minute they decide to keep an avatar out instead of resting. At that price avatar melee stops looking anything close to cost-effective.
__________________ A trail of feelings, of awe and inspiration, should lead him to that castle: in the future: her arms enclosing him, her scent fills him with excitement, creates a moment so strong he can remember it in the past. | |
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| | #12 |
| Made of Awesome Brass Ribbon of Service Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Idaho
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
Maybe make them a bit more effective. If the amount of melee damage they do can at least match most DDs, then maybe it would be a bit more worthwhile to hold them out.
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| | #13 |
| Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ft lauderdale fl
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
i 2nd that, make there attacks stronger. Come on carby would attack a Easy prey and do 8 dmg when ur lv 10. That just sucks. They need to make them stronger as melee stronger and lower mp cost
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| | #14 |
| Crime Solving Rank 11 Paladin! Holyknight Emblem Join Date: May 2006 Location: None of your damn business
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My Mood: | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
Avatars used to get stronger against lower leveled opponents like players do but SE changed that back in 2004 I believe. Also, there's actually a set damage cap for their melee (I think it's arounf 160, at least for carbuncle). It doesn't matter if the avatar scores a critial hit either, their regular melee will never exceed the preset cap. |
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| | #15 |
| Call me "Rain" | Re: Your thoughts on Summoner
Well, I feel like I repeat myself in a lot of threads like this, but meh it's my choice posting again anyhow. Well, in my opinion, Summoners have 3 setbacks. Perpetuation, Blood Pact Timers, and MP cost. Honestly, I can deal with the Blood Pact timers (except in Ballista). The perpetuation and MP cost only bothers me because we have BOTH. I feel like we should have one or the other. I know SE wants to balance the jobs like making each job have advantages and disadvantages, but sometimes I feel like they may go too far in really trying to balance things out in a way it's actually hurting the job.
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| The following user says "Thank You" to Rain_Blade for above post: | Akashimo (08-20-2007) |
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