[Cheecko]

I'm kinda curious as to why WHM get's all the staff WS's when they can't even use the relic staff. They also seem to be specialized with clubs anyway right? So why do BLM and SMN have to be /WHM in order to use WS's that they should technicly have? Any thoughts on this?

[UnnamedGalka]

Originally Posted by Cheecko

I'm kinda curious as to why WHM get's all the staff WS's when they can't even use the relic staff. They also seem to be specialized with clubs anyway right? So why do BLM and SMN have to be /WHM in order to use WS's that they should technicly have? Any thoughts on this?

I've wondered this, too, but I've thought on it more, and I've come to the conclusion that it's all a balancing act. I think SE intended WHM to have some advantage over other mage jobs, other than just healing magic. BLM and SMN can dish out impressive numbers with nukes and avatars, respectively - that gives SE the excuse to limit their melee potential.

[Icemage]

Truth. BLMs and SMN don't need WS to supplement their damage potential. I personally think S-E gave WHMs Earth Crusher and Hexa Strike as an apology for just how gimped they made Holy...


Icemage

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Truth. BLMs and SMN don't need WS to supplement their damage potential. I personally think S-E gave WHMs Earth Crusher and Hexa Strike as an apology for just how gimped they made Holy...


Icemage

Lol >.>; i find it both sad and funny on how truthful that is reguarding Holy.
Though, the apology S-E gave us whms failed in being able to use it like what we would see DRKs using Spiral Hell or MNK with Dragon Kick v.v.;; But that might be a bit off topic :X.

Earth Crusher was fun before I learned about the alsomeness of Hexa and while I was on that whole whm+scythe bit a while back, yet in terms of doing some good dmg potentional to me lies with Retribution and Spirit Taker for BLM and SMN. Espically with Spirit Taker's dmg become MP would be a good escuse in letting a pure DD smn to melee when there is a whm and refresher in a pty. Where the blm could just do the same, but with the casting times of the A.M. and Tier 3-4, wouldn't exactly be effective.

[Feenicks]

Is Retribution a good WS? I'm coming up on 230 skill for Staff as WHM and of course I'm going to go through the WS quest for Retribution (even though I can't make Level 3 skillchains with staff ... >_<) ... but is it any good or will I just find myself using Spirit Taker whenever I start whacking things with my big toothpick?

[Gobo]

You'll probably end up just using Spirit Taker, but Retribution is fun to have for that random time you want to toss your staff for whatever reason. It hits harder than the rest of the WS most of the time anyway. (save Full Swing @ 300% TP, but thats another topic).

[SharMarali]

Considering that SMNs are generally reduced to having to use the elemental staves so we can keep our pets out for as low of a cost as possible, and considering that the elemental staves do horribly weak damage compared to some of the other, higher level staves we can equip, it doesn't matter terribly much that we don't get some of the EX weapon skills without using certain subjobs. Plus we're the squishiest of all jobs in terms of our ability to take damage and our hitpoints. So it's best that we let our pets do all the damage, take all the hate, and we do a spirit taker now and then to replinish MP.

I can use any staff of my choice with carbuncle out and he's free, thanks to the evoker's pigaches +1. I'm so freaking weak though, even as an elvaan, that it makes little difference.

Basically, I found this topic kind of funny that someone is complaining that we don't get the heavier WSs for staff that WHM gets. WHMs also don't have pets that can deal out a couple thousand points of damage to EP monsters or a few hundred to IT++, nor do they have the ability to kite around an NM indefinately with a free little squirrel. If anything, I'd say SE tipped the balance in OUR favor, not theirs.

[Shadowneko]

probabaly it's becase summoer has the high rating in staff. Also one reason this is probabaly so is the simple fact that WHM exisited before Zilart and so were Staves.(Summoner was relased with that expansion)

[Cheecko]

Originally Posted by SharMarali

Basically, I found this topic kind of funny that someone is complaining that we don't get the heavier WSs for staff that WHM gets. WHMs also don't have pets that can deal out a couple thousand points of damage to EP monsters or a few hundred to IT++, nor do they have the ability to kite around an NM indefinately with a free little squirrel. If anything, I'd say SE tipped the balance in OUR favor, not theirs.

You know what's even more humerous? The fact you failed to understand that this is a discussion-based topic, not a rant, or a complaint to SE. (We know how far they go. e_e) So keep your snide remarks to yourself from now on alright? ^~ And yes, I found that remark insulting because I thought this was a good discussion to ponder about.

[SharMarali]

It wasn't meant to be a snide remark. Just an observation.

I was merely pointing out that BLMs and SMNs have it all over WHMs when it comes to doling out damage, and that we have no real need for high end staff skills.

I'm a fairly tolerant person of various perspectives and the like. Hell, I beat RDM Maat using a damned sword and shield and meleeing him. Go over to the RDM forums and I GUARANTEE you'll find at least a dozen people who flame you and say it can't be done. It can. I did it. It was stupid. I did it anyway. I've done a LOT of things in my time in FFXI that conventional wisdom would say is stupid or worse. Some of them turned out well, others turned out badly.

I'm all for people doing whatever they like. I'm content with the place I've carved out for myself in the game, and all I want for anyone else is for them to be content with THEIR place as well.

But that doesn't mean I can't express my opinion. I'm not sure why you found my opinion personally insulting, or why you found the need to make a personal attack against me, but rest assured, I am entirely unoffended by it.

[Cheecko]

That's nice. Sorry if you thought I was trying to offend you.

Anyway, I realize that BLM and SMN can dish out some fair damage with avatars, and Black magic. I just find it odd though how a majority of the jobs in the game can use the heavy WS's but not the relic. And in most cases, a BLM usually isn't fighting with a staff at all if it has to use magic to win. Most of the time it's just soloing weak crap while PLing, farming, or bored and such, and the same for SMN. (Although Carby mitts is very easy to get nowadays)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the Staff weapon, in general, is broken. It's not meant for fighting in any possible scenario. (PLD's with Terra/Earth staff, won't need TP anyway because if they need the -phys. damage they'd most likely be kiting or something) Not only that, but only like 1/10 of all staves are used by my estimate. And that's basicly elemental staves and their +1's. Everything else is just for cheap +MP/HP while leveling.

[Akashimo]

Not nessarcly, there are some flat out acc/atk staffs that aren't elementals or some no bonus/effect ones for dding, mostly suited for smn or mnk wanting to melee with another type of weapon for one reason or another. I know one i use while in a cap 30 or 20 cap areas, Holy Pole that works well, plus it was one of my woodworking synths.

As for staffs in general being broken, I think its more of the delay to damage they have compared to other 2 handed weapons. Maybe if they gave wars, pld, whm, smn and blm some staff version of "martial arts" which includes dmg bonus it could really add some potential.

[SharMarali]

Thyrusstab is a nice staff for melee damage, especially for the price (read: FREE). Sadly, I haven't gotten my hands on one. Diabolos's pole is what I use most of the time if it's just me and Buncle kicking it. Honestly there are a fair number of high-end, heavy damage staves, but SMN can't equip very many of them. Thyrusstab is pretty freaking awesome though, once you unlock the latent.

[Shirai]

Thyrusstab is indeed a nice weapon, alas I haven't gotten my mitts on it yet.

A couple of other decent staves are Kirin's pole, especially the MND+10 makes it good for Retribution and Spirit taker.

If you have sea access and have a Linkshell that fights sea gods, Hope staff is also a very nice staff to add to the collection.
It's less damage then the above, however when you get a couple of stacks of Virtue stones you will have little trouble keeping up with the TP of a Ninja.
This staff is especially handy for skilling up and helping people break their trial weapons that can make Darkness with Retribution.
(Add in a Brutal earring and you'll even see it attack 3 times sometimes, which is a pretty funny sight I might add.)

[Rakshaka]

The best staff to melee with, imo, is the martial staff. These days, I go /thf to party, and I bring along my trusty martial staff. Sneak attack spirit taker, does anywhere from 250 to 400 dmg on VT mobs. If I'm in mamool ja staging point, I save my WS to use on the puk to get the most mp out of spirit taker. I get a lucky 600 dmg spirit taker on them sometimes.

I melee for tp, and use a BP when I feel the need. I never have to rest, it's great. Something that's really nice about not having to rest is the fact that resting takes some time to kick in. So if you want to get some mp back, and start to rest, then uh oh tanks down to half. Then you gotta get up, burn mp, then sit back down and hope you don't have to get back up before ppl need cures again.

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that spirit taker is one of the best tools a smn has, and with the right gear, it'll let you bring a lot more to the party than anyone else can.