[Daryn2889]

Originally Posted by tazirai

Posts like this make me sad reading them, and I really love the you're gimped without XXX summons. When I levelled Summoner back in 2004 we only had the Rat.
I levelled to 56 without the others as they weren't even in the game yet. No auto refresh or even Clear Mind trait. and when you used Astral you could only do it once.
I WAS GIMPED!!!

Now things have changed, we got those affore mentioned traits, They added AF and the Prime fights, and they were alot of fun to do. Then SE said hey let's make it easier for lower level Summoners to really try their hand at being Summoners. They added the level 20 fights..
I personally have done them simply to see if I could, I look at the level 20 fights as training for would be summoners, as you learn strategy while doing them.

You learn to conserve MP, kiting, Astral Flow techniques, timing, Aggro management, and that money doesnt grow on trees, among other things.
The people that say level 20 fights arent worth it, Ignore em, ESPECIALLY if they are l337 Summoners, or just Elitist.

Your invit rate depends on how well you perform your task, as you join more and more PT's and perform well. Your name will spread, and peole will be willign to invite you wether or not you have some leet, avatar or not. Speaking of myself I still don't have Diabolos, and never get asked if I do, I've done the Diabolos mission fight more than the actual BC for the Summoning Magic. I lost once and havent had the time to do it again, nor really felt like it.

When Fenrir was released I never suffered from lack of invites from people I've teamed with before, because I was good at other things. I did get Fenrir but not until I got to level 70. I saw him as my level 70 birthday present. I still get merit PT's now without Diabolos, and still never get asked to "pop" him out just for looks. I'll get him one day, but i'm really not worried about it.

As for "Endgame" I can't speak on it as I've never reached Endgame yet, I'm still playing the same game from 4 years ago ^^. I don't do HNM, well I did it a few times and found the experience lacking, you may like it. I have fun running missions and BCNM,ENM,ISNM and random pop NM's.

I pretty much never use Fenrir anyway except in dynamis, My favorite avatars are Ifrit and Shiva. I Party alot with Beastmasters and Bluemages during meriting since those jobs like me to finish off the mob after we DoT it. You can do that with the Rat^^. and even skill up in the process heh.

But I understand that the way I play isnt the way you play, SO let me say this keep your chin up, don't let what people say overly influence "YOUR" game.
So take what I and they say with a grain of salt.

/comfort Daryn2889 ( ^-^)_旦～

Thank you so much, that really made me feel better about everything. The things people were saying, how they said that the level 20 solo fights were worthless and such, made me feel like i accomplished nothing and made me feel kinda down (ya i know its a game, but I thought I never really was too good at mmorpgs, and that was my chance to shine). I held the record of defeating shiva, idk if i still hold it, but I was really proud of myself. And to hear all that junk about how that wasn't even worth it, kinda made me upset. Thanks for the cheer up ^^

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Rain_Blade

Well, level 20 battles are worth it in my opinion. A future-summoner could at least try it for their liking. As you do a few more, you'll understand the strategy more.

Well, since you quoted me, I'm a little concerned that my message came across as saying that Summoners shouldn't do the mini-battles, or that they're not worth doing.

That was not my point by any stretch of the imagination. If I, in any way, came across as belittling your feeling of accomplishment, Daryn2889, I apologize.

I do agree with the notion that the mini-battles are not strictly needed -- clearly there are other avenues that can net you the avatars, if that's all you want to accomplish.

Tazirai concisely made the point I was floundering to make by analogy. Finishing the mini-battles shows that a player understands the mechanics of being a Summoner, but more importantly the mini-battles test your metal as a Summoner.

I feel a tiny bit sorry for the folks that acquired their avatars before the mini-battles were introduced, because in my honest opinion, getting your avatars via the mini-battles is a prestigous achievment that the early Summoners were cheated out of.

[Telera]

That actually kind of bothers me. The assertion that being unable to beat the avatars when you're only a twenty summoner who is still working out the mechanics of your job somehow equates to being somewhat incompetent at it. Someone who went the route of having others get them, or perhaps levelled somewhat to where they could halfway contribute in the prime fights, they can be equally good summoners as they begin to get the hang of their job. Skill comes with time. It comes slower to some people. The guy who can't kite them at twenty could come back at level 40 and try his hand at them and then be able to do it with flare.

I really don't think that makes them incompetent. By twenty, you really haven't had any previous experience with kiting with Carbuncle. You spend 99% of your time in the dunes casting cure for the party. And yes, sometimes those people will get frustrated and call in friends. Or friends may just offer to do it for them, and when you're at your wits end, broke, and about to quit the game because your only alternative is some asshat saying you should level some job you really don't like to 70... well, people will do what they feel they have to do. Yes, I fell into the later category. People finally half forced me to come along with them because I was on the verge of giving up. Does that means I suck now? I guess that's up to the individual to decide. I have had numerous Good jobs! and so forth tossed at me after party breaks. And plenty of people asking to party with me again at later times. I've had compliments on both my ability to MB and keep buffs up, as well as aiding our healer, or just *being* the healer. I've had a whm tell me in a AU party not too long ago, that I actually made his job easier and most summoners he'd ever partied with only made it harder. If my path to my avatars somehow makes me still incompetent, then clearly all those people would have to be wrong. But then again, the opinion of strangers matters almost nil to me in the real world, and even less in games. So if people judge me by a surface feature rather than my abilities with my features, well, that's just really their own issue to contend with.

I couldn't care less how someone obtained their avatars. Its the skill they've picked up on the way that matters more than the how, when, and why. It's not the feature, it's what you do with it. I'm sure there's been people who did it all on their own who are horrible at the game and there's people who had help who grow up to be some of the better summoners. The people who can do it at twenty, I think that's beautiful. A true feat, and something to be proud of. But someone who can't shouldn't have to feel ostracized by half their job community. Do I ever feel remorse for how I got them? Only for two. The rest of them I was high enough to contribute through healing and buffing and even tossed out the three AF's.

As with Tazirai, I'm waiting until 70 to go on Fenrir. I want to be able to stand there against him. It's something I'm adamant on doing.

But in relation to the OP: I've gotten to 60 without Fenrir. And plenty of people have gone farther without. My advice to you is to do what you can, when you can, be the best you can be no matter how you get your avatars and pay no heed to the detractors no matter which path you take.

If you love the job, go for it. People are going to think what they're going to think and nothing you can do will likely change their mind. Just keep faith in yourself and always strive to do your best at it, and you'll be fine.

[Rain_Blade]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Well, since you quoted me, I'm a little concerned that my message came across as saying that Summoners shouldn't do the mini-battles, or that they're not worth doing.

That was not my point by any stretch of the imagination. If I, in any way, came across as belittling your feeling of accomplishment, Daryn2889, I apologize.

I do agree with the notion that the mini-battles are not strictly needed -- clearly there are other avenues that can net you the avatars, if that's all you want to accomplish.

Tazirai concisely made the point I was floundering to make by analogy. Finishing the mini-battles shows that a player understands the mechanics of being a Summoner, but more importantly the mini-battles test your metal as a Summoner.

I feel a tiny bit sorry for the folks that acquired their avatars before the mini-battles were introduced, because in my honest opinion, getting your avatars via the mini-battles is a prestigous achievment that the early Summoners were cheated out of.

I understand. I mean they are worth it if you're really commited to doing them and spending about 30k worth of items. If you know how to make money, you could do it if you like, but I wouldn't suggest it for a person who is struggling with money.

I think Square Enix should give us the benefit of the doubt and just give the level 20 summoners the necessary items for the battles in their inventory when the battles start so that you will not waste money on each battle. It seems fair since some people can't beat them and it's unfair that you spend your money continously on something you're trying to beat.

This is just my opinion on what I think about the situation.