[Darkhound]

I want this to very an objective thread, and will try not to rant whatsoeve, but I guess this will be a tad difficult. Anyway here goes.

At level 75, I personally feel that other than Wyrms, the summoners role contributiuon is very limited. Have you seem the shameful and ridiculous damage Astral flows does to a God, or to Kirin... my AF did 12 damage to Jormungand!

I think at endgame our 2 hour is USELESS.... Why do Astral Flow, drain all your mp for poor damage when you can do Spining Dive or Predator Claws for 500+ damage? I dont think this is right in any way....

What do I suggest.....

1. Fix they power of AF in endgme
2. Make those new abilites like, Heavenly Strike, Geocrush etc to be the new 2 hours and make the old 2 hours lvl 75 regular blood pacts.

How is it possible that i do more damage with Nether Blsat to kirin that with Aerial Blast????

Any comments guys?

[Alauna]

I agree with you that the "Astral Flow Blood Pact" is rather weak for end game activities.

But on the other hand, look what using AF does for you. It gives you three minutes of Free Avatars. Forget all about using Aerial Blast, but rather three more Spinning Dives or Nether Blasts, all the while regening MP at 4 or 5mp/tick (gear+refresh) ((or more, if you have a brd). Burn up 75% of your MP, then pop Astral Flow and keep going, rather than stopping and resting. By the time Astral Flow wears off, you'll have a good chunk of MP left to keep going.

As you progress in lvls, you get new BP's, and put old ones away. When you first get Tail Whip, it does lots more damage than most of your other BPs at that lvl. When you hit 50, did you not use Double Slap a lot more, because I does better damage? At 67, im using Eclipse bite a lot more than other, because it gives better, more consistant damage than other BPs.

There is no rule that says you *must* use the Astral Flow BP when using Astral Flow. It's just a "bonus" BP made available to you.

[Tirrock]

Originally Posted by Alauna

But on the other hand, look what using AF does for you. It gives you three minutes of Free Avatars.

Bingo. I love astral flow, it's saved my life (and others) a few times. Not from the special blood pacts, but from the temporary removal of the perpetuation costs.

The astral flow blood pacts have one of the largest draw-backs of all the two hour abilities. And although they're generally helpful on BCNMs and such (on 60 cap and lower), it's just not adviseable to use these blood pacts without thinking it through.

Although, I definitely think that astral flow blood pacts look nice. I used to do howling moon on things in batallia, just to see howling moon.

[Darkhound]

Thanks for your commets. I simply thought it would be nice to see our Special Blood pacts to do GOOD damage. Like the ultimate move or something. What do u think of my idea of adding the new abilites for astral flow?

[Tirrock]

Honestly? I'd rather have a single target magic attack that does damage comparable to level 70 blood pacts be useable more than a few times every 2 hours. I'm just hoping that the new blood pacts are decent damage. They weren't too impressive in fights against the primes.

[Darkhound]

Well, i guess we are all waiting and see what happens. I hope we dont get some weak BP!

[Tirrock]

I hope we don't either, but they definately wouldn't be alone.

That's right, Whispering Wind, I still hate you.

[Omniblast]

How about, depending on how much MP you consume, it would be a multiplier of that and as well as the Monster's weakness to that element?

Weak to = Opposite element = 2 * MP + 1000 with no resistance
Strong to = Same Element = 1 * MP + 500 with 50% resistance

So, if you had full MP as a typical Tarutaru Summoner, fighting against a Enemy weak to Wind, Garuda's Aerial Blast would do 2 * 1300 + 1000 damage = 3600 damage.

Now, if you fight something that was the same element, say wind, and use Garuda's Aerial Blast, as a Tarutaru Summoner you would do 1 * 1300 + 500 = 1800 / 2 = 900 damage.

All damage takes into account your CURRENT MP not your MAX in your MP pool. So Inital Astral Flow will be of course stronger than subsequent Astral Flows.

The only problem is that if we correct these Astral Flow's here for us, how would it affect Monsters that are Summoner Jobs? Would it make them too powerful? (upwards of 7000 damage per Astral Flow to everyone - Dynamis = fun)

Another idea, Add two new Job Abilities. Level 40 and level 60 obtainable.
Astral Alignment - Next Physical Blood Pact is more accurate and Stronger
Cool down timer 3min
Astral Wave - Next Magical Blood Pact is more accurate and Stronger
Cool down timer 3min

Then we can just combine these into our Avatar, (Astral Flow first, Astral Wave, Aerial Blast)

[Wiseman40]

I like that idea Omniblast... I think that would work pretty well...

[Tirrock]

The damage output is a bit high for AoE... Plus I think it'd be better off if the damage were based off of what % of your MP you have remaining, instead of how much MP you have. Otherwise you'll see a bunch of tarutarus with full zenith running around in dynamis astral flowing large groups of monsters.

you'll see a bunch of tarutarus with full zenith running around in dynamis

...You know what, nevermind. That'd be funny to see. Dynamis-Windurst would be a blast.
-Tarutaru army begins summoning...
-Yagudo uses sweep.
-Tarutaru army gets oneshotted.

[SharMarali]

Astral Flow is easily the most complex 2hr ability in the game. I've had a number of folks who were relatively new to the game (or at a minimum, relatively new to the SMN job) ask me to explain how it works, and it always takes me a few minutes to make sure they're clear on it. Like all other things Summoner, our 2hr gives us a variety of options.

I frequently use Astral to keep an avatar free for a little while, and only rarely do I use the "special" blood pact. Sure, it was awesome for all the capped CoP fights. Once you have the 70 BPs though, it really ISN'T worth it most of the time.

The problem, IMHO, lies in the fact that the Astral Flow special BP is basically purely elemental damage, while the 70 series of BPs is a combination of physical and elemental damage, leaning HEAVILY toward physical damage. Elemental damage in XI was basically geared to be a BLM-only kind of thing, and everyone else is ineffective with it at best.

[Tirrock]

The help text on the level 70 blood pacts should mention which ones have elemental properties and which don't. If all level 70 blood pacts had elemental properties; you'd have people healing the pots in KS30 pots in fei'yin, since they absorb any attack that is of the same element as they are.

Not to mention things like spectral barrier would have an effect on the blood pact damage, as well as shell IV on players/beastmen, or even bubble curtain on crabs.

[Omniblast]

My LS mate Hectoris (really decked out SMN) shows us how much damage he does in sea..
Not photoshopped in any way. (just cut out the chat and posted Ifrit's damage)

[Darkhound]

A smn friend did that also to those mobs. Other than that, i dont think we do much on any other enemies......

[Tirrock]

Originally Posted by Omniblast

My LS mate Hectoris (really decked out SMN) shows us how much damage he does in sea..
Not photoshopped in any way. (just cut out the chat and posted Ifrit's damage)

Yeah, SMN can hit hard on those things. This is my personal best:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ck/guppies.jpg
It's not photoshopped either, especially since the closest thing I have to photoshop is MSpaint.

I think SMN are pretty much fine as they are at high levels. Hateless damage on HNM is very nice. And we do good damage on exp monsters for being put in a support role in parties a lot.

Edit: Here's a picture of a friend beating my highest damage.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ofly/crush.jpg