[Tirrock]

Unless you get a lot more SMN and a high level THF or PLD to pull for you, you probably can't. The astral flow mass killing only works well when your astral flow can one shot (or two shot if you're with another SMN) the monsters you're trying to kill. I think it'd take 4 astral flows to kill T-VTs at those levels.

For low levels, it involves a high(er) level person outside of the party grabbing a bunch of aggresive and/or linking mobiles, claiming as few as possible for themselves. The monsters being EM to IT (preferably) to the SMN(s). Then a SMN(s) astral flowing them all for instant chain 15. It should work fairly well, in theory, since any job that's significantly higher level than the SMN can gather the monsters with little risk to themselves. And at that level, astral flow should be able to oneshot the monsters.

At higher levels, like 66, you'll definitely need more than one SMN, and you'd need somebody able to survive pulling them. A PLD probably could, and a THF might be able to evade them enough...and both of them have their two hours to fall back on if that fails.

At level 75 it took me 3 astral flows to get rid of a group of EP beetles in garliage, and I had a friend sleepgaing them between blood pacts.

[Darkhound]

Exactly my point.... 3 astral flows to kill EP mobs... guys that is shameful and ridiculous. AF IMO, should be more powerfull than that dont you think?

[Tirrock]

I think there would be balance issues in making astral flow more powerful. If it got to the point where SMN could solo exp by gathering a ton of EM+ monsters and astral flowing them...I'd expect a big nerf bat for SMN in the future.

They nerfed SMN when eclipse bite/level 70 blood pacts were doing too much damage on DCs and lower. You could one shot EPs with high level blood pacts...it was insane.

[Taskmage]

Originally Posted by Darkhound

Exactly my point.... 3 astral flows to kill EP mobs... guys that is shameful and ridiculous. AF IMO, should be more powerfull than that dont you think?

/shrug How many Mijin Gakure does it take to kill an EP? Meikyo Shisui? They all have their uses, of course. Astral Flow probably has more than others. At early levels it's arguably brokenly powerful. Sure the effectiveness tapers off later in the game, but that's true for practically every offensive action we have.

What do you feel an appropriate level of power for Astral Flow would be?

[Darkhound]

Well, I see astral flow as an emergency thing. Consider that MY predator Claws can do like 1200k damnage on a vt mob, well, i think astral flow could be setup to do like 2000 - 3000 damange solid! I have been done 2k damange every once in a while to POTS while camping water.


Why not have astral flow do the same? It drains all our MP so having it do contant damage would be nice! Or having it do 2 - 3k damage on kirin would be nice!

Before anyone says this is too much, think of how many times a blackmage can magic burst for 1k damange over and over and over in a short period of time.

Any comments?

[nanatsu]

Originally Posted by Darkhound

Well, I see astral flow as an emergency thing. Consider that MY predator Claws can do like 1200k damnage on a vt mob, well, i think astral flow could be setup to do like 2000 - 3000 damange solid! I have been done 2k damange every once in a while to POTS while camping water.


Why not have astral flow do the same? It drains all our MP so having it do contant damage would be nice! Or having it do 2 - 3k damage on kirin would be nice!

Before anyone says this is too much, think of how many times a blackmage can magic burst for 1k damange over and over and over in a short period of time.

Any comments?

I dunno, lemme ask you this. Do blms have 1K dmg AoE spells at 75?. I'm asking because I simply do not know. If they don't, and even if they do actually, 2-3K damage AoE is too much. Reason why Predator Claws does so much is because it's single target. 1200 dmg AoE would be broken too imo.

An alliance of any job where each person is doing 9K dmg total on Kirin in a short period of time is nerf worthy. Can blms really do 9K dmg against Kirin in less than a couple of minutes?

[LadyPeorth]

Originally Posted by nanatsu

I dunno, lemme ask you this. Do blms have 1K dmg AoE spells at 75?. I'm asking because I simply do not know.

Thundaga 3, fully meritted...I've seen do roughly 1690...to high level targets.

[Darkhound]

You see... i have seen it too! Giving AoE damage increase to Astral Flow is not a crazy thing to do!

[Yoko]

Maybe the fact that all our dmg is free of hate is what keeps SE from pumping up the dmg =/

[Darkhound]

Well, that id give ok... but still astral flows damage imo is ridiculously pooor!

[Gobo]

So. When was the last time you saw a RDM use Chainspell for anything other than Stun in an endgame situation? What about Benediction, EES, Familiar, Spirit Surge, Mighty Misses and Hundred Wiffs? Sure Manafont and Invinicible have their uses, but come on, who uses Blood weapon when they dont have a multi-hit weapon.

Also, try not just to abuse Astral Flow right away. If you time it as a MB the damage is significantly increased, on Par or better than the 70 BPs. I've SSed almost all Astral Flows (save 1 or 2) as magic bursts (am I a dork or what), and all were 1200+ on their target, . Burn MP until you have 150 left, then pop Astral Flow and MB with it.

[Darkhound]

Re taking this subject, I still insist that there should be a slight change in the way astral flow works. The point of debate is wether this would make summoner ower powered, but It still hurts to see that our 2 hour is really not that powerfull. I see black mages do much more with their regular spells, shame shame!!

[Tirrock]

I'm sticking with what I said.

Bingo. I love astral flow, it's saved my life (and others) a few times. Not from the special blood pacts, but from the temporary removal of the perpetuation costs.

I'd also tell you to level BLM if you wantedto do a bunch of damage and then fall over dead...but you already are.

[Darkhound]

Yes, I got my BLM up there now. I just think it would be NICE to have AF do nice damage to IT mobs at our level!

[Gobo]

Hmm, 1213 Ruinious Omen on Alaster antlion+823 on Ugg pendant NM (super magic resist). 1200+ Aerial Blasts in "King" Apollyon. Those being unbursted, can cost only 150 MP, if you do it right, and add on 0 perpet for the next 3 min, with the chance to do it twice (thrice if you have the best of the best) more, what more do you truely want from it?