[Temagori]

Let's all pray that we aren't off-base by thinking logically, but it's as they say. Why would they do that? It makes too much sense...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I really do sometimes hate it when people keep suggesting some job be given something broken like Regain. Especially a job that is already popular and powerful like RDM. Before the SCH update, I might have felt WHM or SCH should have something like that as a gambit against what RDM, BRD and COR have, but now that SCH has become a really powerful job with access to BLM Tier IVs and insane Crowd Control ability, its better they just boost WHM and BLM in thier own respects.

Even with Relic, it would be pretty broken to hand out something like Regain.

Note: In regards to my previous comments about Excalibur, one aspect I forgot to mention was that this PLD mainhanded Excalabur and off-handed joy. Given he was /NIN and off-handing Joyeuse and had no Brutal Earring to proc main hand, this could be why Excalibur's specialized damage was so difficult to see. Joyeuse procs a ton and recasting spells usually forces a delay on swings, though not always.

Of course, shit was also just going really fast in that PT. Very high chains in a colibri camp as WAR x2, PLD, COR, BRD and RDM.

[Feba]

Well, we (or at least, I) don't know yet precisely how much effort it's going to take to get the new weapons. Personally, for the old relics, I always thought they were extremely underpowered. Even where they are usable, it's generally a matter of "This is the best weapon out there for this job", and not "Holy shit this thing is freaking awesome". When you're putting in as much effort (or gil) as it takes to get one of them, that's really not enough. I'd rather see SE make relic weapons incredibly useful in other ways than break them in battle, though. Like, have the THF weapon effectively allow a THF to use Hide, and toss out sneak/invis potions (a legendary thieves weapon that makes you a master of sneaking around); inventive stuff.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Overall, what I hope is that they're a bit more sane/practical to obtain. I hope there are insanely challenging quests involved rather than mindless grinding in places such as Dynamis to obtain the ability to upgrade them.

But I expect it to be insane anyway. All I know is now that Death Penalty is out there, its a focus and hopefully I don't have lose my soul in exchange for one

[Feba]

Yeah, that'd be nice too. Relic weapons should be more of a personal endeavor, anyway. It doesn't make sense to have 60+ people fighting to get something that's only going to have a benefit to one of them.
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Insane efforts should have insane rewards.

Group efforts should have group rewards.

[Temagori]

I fully agree with the sentiment of group rewards for group things and individual rewards for individual accomplishment.

I would have no problem doing things above and beyond that just involved me or hell even if it took two or three and up to a party..., but a full alliance is a little much for something only one can use. To somewhat quote Feba.

I mean I just hope these aren't a flop and seem like just a novelty weapon like the Relic Club and Relic Staff are.

[Feenicks]

Well getting to Lv100 in Nyzul is a big enough slog in and of itself, I was of the opinion that the Nyzul relics would only need some crafting items and imperial currency in order to upgrade them. I kind of expected them to be good weapons but not the absolute apex of amazingness, which you would use in order to have access to Nyzul relic WS (or spells for mage jobs possibly).

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Temagori

Or RDM with "Regain".

Let me be the first to say:

NO!

. . . No, wait, 'kitten beat me too it. Blargh, I should've seen the next page.

[Temagori]

Wait so if I understand you right you thought you would get a good relic weapon with stats based on jobs that didn't have the relic WS that you could then upgrade again to get the relic WS?
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The only reason people suggest Regain is because it is a status in the game. Something else that suprisingly has not been added as a usable spell is Pax.

I realize Regain seems like a bit much to be added, but you never know with SE. I mean I am really surprised that you chose to attack Regain and not Meteor or Ultima or any of the other "Possibilities". My guesses are because you would love to be able to use those, but Regain in your mind is going too far.

If these relic weapons are truly hard to get rewarding someone with spells that seem powerful is kinda the point. You wouldn't say that someone should get something weak from a Fully Upgraded Relic weapon if your talking about the hopefuls that it might offer.

Embrace the possibilities. Hell before SCH came out there were hopefuls talking about the possibility of Geomancer who could tank using the different weather spells. Nice to think about, very plausible, just didn't happen. Look at it from that standpoint and Regain amongst other spells is not so much a "broken" inplausible idea for an addidtion to a end-form Relic weapon.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Temagori

My guesses are because you would love to be able to use those, but Regain in your mind is going too far.

You're insane. Refresh and Haste is too much for some Red Mages already, Regain would just murder us! At least Ultima and Meteor are reasonable in that the user doesn't get screwed for having the spell! Not because they're too powerful at all, it'd just be more soul-rape. And, like 'kitten said, think of the poor other mages displaced by a single spell that Red Mages have already.

Even if it were self-cast only, it'd still be incredibly broken.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I over look Meteor because it would have an ungodly MP cost to match its power, RDM on the other hand, does not need yet another buff to cycle nor does it need any more help in terms of support power.

[Temagori]

lol Well who says that RDM has to get it? SE could throw us a curve ball and make WHM get it or SCH even.

That would deter abit from the Soul Rape you speak of, but even Regain aside let's just hope what they add will be balanced with MP-->Powerfulness as was said of Meteor. I would like to see Pax for WHM and maybe the opposite of Pax for them or another mage as well.

All in all I just hope SE doesn't tease us with these only for them to suck royal ass.

[Feenicks]

Not to rain on your parade but Pax already exists. It's called Adventurer's Dirge.

Ultima and Meteor, whilst potentially being amazingly powerful, have a drawback in that large amounts of damage bring with them large amounts of hate, and so must be used sparingly. Regain would be a buff which induces only minimal hate from the monster, and considering the benefit of Regain there's no balance at all. The only way I would want to see Regain implemented would be if it had the volatile enmity of a DS+Curaga IV.

[Temagori]

I meant literally the spell Pax not just a song that gives the effect of it. I mean giving it to a WHM on the weapon much the way the Relic WS show on it.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Feenicks

The only way I would want to see Regain implemented would be if it had the volatile enmity of a DS+Curaga IV.

Sch/nin tank. I'm already excited!