[Armando]

It may a trait granted by merits, as I began Sam after I had merits into Crit+. But, if having those merits does allow for certain WS to be granted the ability to crit, then using items and dex increase to enhance that ability would prove more viable that the +4 str granted from said legs.

As for the forumlas, while helpful in guidance, they are not concrete. Otherwise there would be no "unexplained variance". And 200 Fast Blades is the parsing of a single WS, were there any merits and/or gear that enhance crits? Do a parsing of different jobs/different WS with adding/subtracting merits/gear that increase crits.

In the Allakhazam thread, the OP had capped crit merits. So no.

The formulas are as concrete as it gets. There are no mystery values. And sorry, but performing those 200 Fast Blades took hours. I'm not going to test every single possibility just because you're convinced there are unknown unknowns in a formula that we haven't found exceptions for in over 4 years. This has been proven thrice over - once by me, once by Kwontos in the linked thread and yet again in the BLU forums.

[Lmnop]

Oh also: 2-handed pdifs are kinda fucked up since 2-handed update. No one has bothered to gather enough data to really figure out wtf is going on there. So I fall back to: the only information not covered is information we need players to go test!

[Reverent Knight]

Seems I caused an argument with a question. In response Ive seen all these formulas before, all i wanted to know was does Att rating affect WS damage, i dont really want to go back to school working it out but looking at the page seems like it does, gonna mess with my equip swap macros, I've swapped out my marine M boots in the macro for the Wyvern helm and I'm using the walahra turban instead of the hatchimam gear. so thats a straight str +60 on ws and an attack of 404 which is acceptable i think.

As far as god gear goes Id be using them if i had it. I only just got sky access and I dont have a HNM ls so gettin the gear is a stretch. All my gear is bought gear youll notice so dont have any of the rare uber rare ex stuff like the kitty pants you mentioned, there on my to do list but ill be doing nothing but farming/crafting for the next few months, need about 5 mil for all the gear I want. Hagun level 70 giants bracers ets

Also the Cop ring is on my to do list but as you can see from my sig I'm no where near it unfortunately.

Thank you for your help and advice, its appreciated

[Celeal]

I had seen Critical hit (non-WS) deal less damage than the following regular hit with my Great Axe WAR/DNC in Campaign. [I was huh?! when I was reading at the log]

For 2-handed weapon against weak mobs (weak defense against melee), with enough attack (Berserk, or attack food, other buffs, etc), and depends on the mob, I notice average difference between a normal hit vs critical hit can be little.

I am not saying who is right or wrong, from my experience there is a chance a non-critical hit can deal higher damage than a critical hit, although the chance is rare.

If the melee formula/model is close enough to the game mechanic, Critical Hits add +1.0 to your current pDIF roll. If you are lucky, your next regular attack may roll with a very high pDIF, even without the aid of +1.0 from critical hit.

I just skim through the posts... but a poster mentioned SAM/NIN in a level sync party with BRD... (and I assume it is a melee WS spam against weak mob party), that spike WS (with no double attack), I think it is more likely comes from combination of luck, high attack (gear + BRD's buff + 2-handed weapon) and mob's low defense.

Just my 2 gil~

[Armando]

Seems I caused an argument with a question. In response Ive seen all these formulas before, all i wanted to know was does Att rating affect WS damage, i dont really want to go back to school working it out but looking at the page seems like it does, gonna mess with my equip swap macros, I've swapped out my marine M boots in the macro for the Wyvern helm and I'm using the walahra turban instead of the hatchimam gear. so thats a straight str +60 on ws and an attack of 404 which is acceptable i think.

The problem is that without "going back to school" and understanding the math behind the game, you can't make informed decisions on your gear choices. Everything becomes guesswork.

Attack does the same thing for WS as it does for normal hits. It gets penalized according to how many levels the mob is higher than you and checked against the mob's Defense to determine the range for the random number by which your Base DMG gets multiplied. STR and WS mods on the other hand, add to your DMG rather than serving as multipliers.

[Reverent Knight]

Originally Posted by Armando

It gets penalized according to how many levels the mob is higher than you

Thats one of the problems I have, i swear i do better damage against campaign mobs that are like level 80+ than i do against merit party mobs

Originally Posted by Armando

Attack does the same thing for WS as it does for normal hits. It gets penalized according to how many levels the mob is higher than you and checked against the mob's Defense to determine the range for the random number by which your Base DMG gets multiplied. STR and WS mods on the other hand, add to your DMG rather than serving as multipliers.

answered my first question in 4 lines with no formulas needed, thats all i needed to know.

I'm currently farming for a hagun/badgering my ls to do the ENM run ) so well see how i get on.

[Armando]

Thats one of the problems I have, i swear i do better damage against campaign mobs that are like level 80+ than i do against merit party mobs

Merit mobs are 80+ too. And how do you know the level of Campaign mobs?

[Lmnop]

Indeed, I think most campaign mobs are probably closest to DC-EM in stats. WARs with shit-tastic evasion can still dodge an attack here and there. They have super odd stats (anything that checks "Impossible to Gauge" always will) but if I had to guess, I'd say roughly level 75 mobs with something like 10x normal HP values.

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Armando

Merit mobs are 80+ too. And how do you know the level of Campaign mobs?

They're 70, that's where tagless skillups cap out.

---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 PM ----------

lol I just read this actual thread, and jeezus...

Anyways regarding Y/G/K specifically the recent testing has shown that they appear to have an innate acc/attack boost, and a pretty substantial one at that, where SAMs with very low acc still had very high WS Acc...meaning Y/G/K are one of the few scenarios where it actually is advisable to stack a ton of STR. They don't crit on their own without forced crits, that's a load of hooey.

@ the OP, you're at least going in the correct direction with most of your gear, I'm sure you know most of the upgrades you need already. Drop the Mythril Grip +1 and get a Pole Grip.

Aside from that the Hagun should be your first focus, 2nd you should work on filling in a 6-hit build including your WS gear, and work on CoP missions, Rajas Ring is indispensable, and Sea Gorgets/AF+1 head/hands/legs are solid pieces that you'll want to get your hands on.

[Malacite]

Originally Posted by Armando

The formulas are as concrete as it gets. There are no mystery values.

Tell that to relic WS.

Tachi: Kaiten, going by the modifiers should rape Yukki Gekko and Kasha, yet it's just the opposite on most mobs outside of merit PTs. The Relic WS in general are appallingly weak for their alleged modifiers.

[Callisto]

It's fairly possible that the values given for fTP/mods for Kaiten on the wiki are just wrong/outdated too, wouldn't be the first time.

---------- Post added at 01:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 AM ----------

Add: just doing some other browsing, Armando you may find these threads interesting:

cratio for two handers - Order of the Blue Gartr

Re: 2Hand formula on wiki being incorrect, at least in terms of cRatio tiers

Yuki/Gekko/Kasha Attack bonus Testing - Order of the Blue Gartr

and that's regarding the Y/G/K bit I was talking about earlier.

[Reverent Knight]

Cop is a pain in the backside the cause no one does the runs anymore, or people just cant be bothered to get past the promys to carry on with the storyline. I need to blitz the cop storyline get diablos for smn sea access for Blu and the ring for all round sexyness in the finger slot. Mite stand in whitegate obsessively shouting for mission runs and well see.

[Callisto]

As far as actually maximizing your output prior to CoP gear, there's some pretty easy changes you can make to your TP and WS sets to maintain a 6-hit and still keep reasonably good stats. First off make sure to fully merit Store TP in your group 1 merit category, as well as Great Katana skill.

If you have Byakko's Haidate already you can use those along with Hachiman Hands/Feet to get your 6-hit, if not use Shinimusha Haidate in conjunction with either Hachiman Kote/Fuma or Sarutobi feet or Dusk Gloves/Hachiman Feet. Use Haubergeon for the body slot, never TP in anything else that isn't a Haubergeon +1. Since you don't have access to a Swift Belt yet I would aim for an Accuracy build with your other slots, Optical Hat/Life or Potent Belt/Acc Rings, etc.

For your WS set until you get Rajas the Hachiman Domaru is acceptable so long as you aren't TPing in it, swap out your Marine feet for Hachiman Sune-Ate to maintain enough TP return to keep your 6-hit. As someone else metioned, dump the Hachiman head in favor of a Wyvern Helm.

[Reverent Knight]

I changed things around a bit, swapped my hatchiman head for my wyvern helm. Is it really worth loosing 24 attack for the 6 hit build tho? never understood the use of the hatchiman hands over the o kote. I like to do nice damage each attack rather than lower damage just to ws get hate and die faster.

im tp atm in/ an ws in
Walahra turban/ Wyvern Helm
Haubergeon /Hachiman Domaru
o kote /pallas bracelets
Armement Mantle +1/ Armement Mantle +1
Werwolf Belt/ Werwolf Belt
Dusk Trousers /forth schloss
Fuma Sun-ate/ Fuma Sun-ate
Fowling earring/ Fowling earring
coral earring /coral earring
grace ring /2*victory rings
ectophoria ring
lightning bow +1/ lightning bow +1
ominamuriu /ominamuru
Mythril grip +1/ Mythril grip +1

I could swap more but i've only got a 6 swap macro, any more would just get confusing when your trying to ws fast and swap back to your tp gear.

I dont have any sky dynamis endgame gear as I've not been on the game that long, only since last june and Ive pretty much done essential quests and exp since i joined. time to start enjoying the fruits of my labour and get some of the endgame pieces.

[Solymir]

Originally Posted by Reverent Knight

I could swap more but i've only got a 6 swap macro, any more would just get confusing when your trying to ws fast and swap back to your tp gear.

Did you see my post about how you could add one more gear swap to the actual ws macro?