[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Mog

That's a lot of blowjobs...

I was crying, I was laughing, I was even snorting and 2 out of 3 of my family came running in the room because they thought something was horribly wrong! (My son knows me too well, he just yelled from his room "Jesus Mom it couldn't have been THAT funny!")

[Lunaryn]

SAM has been pretty damn overpowered since the 2H adjustment, yeah. That was actually pretty much when tanking finally ended in my xp parties BTW, and when it was finally impossible to put meaningful hate on a tank with TA. No xp party with a SAM in it since then has not had the SAM tanking by the end of the fight.

And just generally, the idiots spreading misinformation is pretty rampant and probably accounts for the death of trad parties at levels where meleeburn doesn't work. I remember trying to spread the word on GAxe in the dunes and having the believe-me-cause-I'm-an-uber-WAR75 shoot my advice to the party's WAR down with his insistence that dual-wielded axes were always massively-more-powerful-in-every-way from the moment you can start subbing NIN for DWI.

[Auro]

oh yeah remember wars?

That was fotm the the first time I came back from an extended absence from ffxi. That was even more shocking. Warrior went from practically non existent to everyones favorite class.

/derail :O

[Susurrus]

tldr,stop whining, L2P

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Firewind

Your SAM is a moron for trying to burn in a non burnable zone.

Technically, this is the fault of the party leader, not necessarily the SAM. The SAM didn't realize the party was built to fail, but then, neither did the OP, and probably not the leader or he wouldn't have built it that way.

The #1 person responsible for this problem was the leader of that party: partly because the buck stops there, but mostly because that party was built to fail. It had the wrong distribution of jobs for the level and mobs that you were fighting, and there's only so much gear or skill can do to make up for that.

The only person out of those who needs haste is the PLD since he/she is tanking. A DD NIN shouldn't need haste because haste doesn't effect the speed of ranged attacks. THF's delay is too low for haste to effect them that much. SAM has Hasso and any good SAM will have haste gear so they shouldn't need haste.

At 60 I don't think there's much haste gear - maybe a couple of ultra-expensive pieces amounting to a few percent and that's it. Also, as someone else pointed out, Haste is percentage based, so THF's low delay (or NIN's for that matter) is no reason not to haste them; but haste doesn't affect SA/TA so THF is probably a low priority for haste anyway.

I wouldn't assume that a DD NIN is necessarily spamming shuriken; they might just have been picked up to fill a slot in a party that already had a tank.

In my parties three people get haste priorities:

1) Me because my cure spells having shorter recast timer benefits the party
2) The Tank so they can keep hate better
3) Any MNK or any DRG, DRK or G.Axe WAR that aren't subbing SAM for some bizarre reason

I never haste myself when healing - the benefit is just too small for the cost. You already have Fast Cast, the additional recast reduction from Haste is going to be a second or less for spells that aren't Raise.

Also, if you need to cast cures faster than the recast timer, your tank fails. C4 > C3 should be *more* than enough.

Aside from the tank, haste is something nice to do with your extra mp, if you have any extra mp. In a melee-heavy setup like that you won't. Essentially the party leader chose to invite one more melee instead of another healer/support that could have improved the performance of the melees the party already had - that's fine, but now they have to live with it.

Replacing any of the non-tank melees with a BRD, COR, SCH, WHM, SMN or another RDM would probably have greatly improved the party's performance. (In that specific case, since there was a potential substitute tank already in the party, you could have replaced the tank that way, too.) If you were the party leader, keep that in mind next time; if not, you could still suggest it in party chat if the party isn't full when you join it.


Come to think of it, there might have been a way to save that party: have the paladin stop tanking and switch to a DD/backup healer role. If he's not taking damage he can keep up parade gorget, plus sanction, plus auto-refresh trait, plus your refresh = 6 mp/tick even while meleeing; that's enough to take some of the cures off your hands. And when not tanking he doesn't need haste, so you'd just refresh yourself and him and haste the NIN and whoever else you had MP for. If he takes off +enmity gear and stops provoking he probably won't pull hate just from meleeing and cures, but if he does, he can swap in armor or use Sentinel or Reprisal until the NIN can get hate back.

Most paladins are not necessarily prepared to attempt that kind of role shifting, though, so the results might be questionable.

Alternatively or in addition, one or more of those melees could have subbed DNC (including the PLD, who wouldn't be giving up much by doing fewer WS since 1h sword has poor WS to begin with) and helped with healing that way. But again, not everyone is prepared to change their role from the conventional wisdom view of their job.

[Firewind]

I never haste myself when healing - the benefit is just too small for the cost. You already have Fast Cast, the additional recast reduction from Haste is going to be a second or less for spells that aren't Raise.

I'm a WHM, I don't get fast cast without subbing RDM (Which is at Lv3 right now) or SCH.

That and having even a few seconds knocked off Flash and Repose can save a Tank's (and therefore the party's) life so yes I WILL haste myself first and foremost thank you very much.

I wouldn't assume that a DD NIN is necessarily spamming shuriken; they might just have been picked up to fill a slot in a party that already had a tank.

If you've got a DD NIN that is using melee attacks instead of shuriken then they're not using their full potential. I've never seen a melee NIN come even close to the DPS a NIN/THF can put out. Seriously a Shuriken Spam for TP followed by a SAWS is just absurdly high damage-wise. NIN/RNG can put out some ridiculous numbers with Barrage too.

EDIT: Though if you have two jobs that can tank in a party bouncing hate between them would probably save the healer more MP in the long term

[Clever Ninja]

Yea that's why I stopped playing RDM, lots of stupid people act like they know what they are talking about. If I'm the ONLY backline job like in that party setup(which is wierd btw, both PLD and NIN? This is why I cant find tanks sometimes when I make parties <_<), I'm Refreshing myself, the tank if applicable, and then Hasting the tank. That's it. I need mp for my enfeebs, and also incase shit happens like a link or the PLD runs low on MP or something.

I've blisted alot of people(a couple were SAM ironically enough) when I played RDM over this shit. Other times I'd Haste everyone else besides the person complaining.

[Illuen]

Originally Posted by Firewind

I'm a WHM, I don't get fast cast without subbing RDM (Which is at Lv3 right now) or SCH.

That and having even a few seconds knocked off Flash and Repose can save a Tank's (and therefore the party's) life so yes I WILL haste myself first and foremost thank you very much.

Just a note on this, not trying to start an argument, but I've never been one to haste myself in an exp situation. Mostly, because, like Karinya said, I don't find the benefit to be worth the MP. at 75, a good chunk of what I'm wearing has haste on it so I'm already getting near instant Flash, and if I'm in a situation where I'm flying by the seat of my Subligar, I figure that the MP i'd spend on haste on myself would be much more benefecial if it was used on a DD so that the fights can go faster.

Also, if the situation has gone so badly that a flash or a Repose is the difference between life or death for a tank, then I'm hoping that I or others in the party are popping two hours. One of my pet peeves is the reluctance that some have to using two hours in bad situations, which is exactly what they're made for. I'm totally off topic at this point, though.

To the OP, you were entirely in the right in this situation. One of the biggest difficulties in playing a support/healing role is not only knowing what and how you can help the party, but when you should be using those abilities and spells.

[Karinya]

Flash is always near instant; I think he meant a few seconds less *recast*.

I was speaking from a RDM perspective, though (since the OP is a RDM and so am I), thus the reference to Fast Cast. It might be different for a WHM (although, apparently, some WHMs would rather have that 40 MP every 2 minutes, too).

[Illuen]

You're totally right, I'm out of it today ; ;. I think my point still stands, however.

[Rodin]

Well, I'm back from a long absence from FFXI...damn WoW.

Anyways, I recently picked my RDM back up, and I just dinged 60 this morning (Yay for Smackaho WS). Anyways, I don't really find it too hard to keep a decent set of Haste and Refresh Cycles going, but then again, that SAM was a dumbass, because if you get a RDM main healer with a paladin tank, a BRD or COR is normally a must to keep downtime low, cause it's a DRAIN on mana to keep all that shit up (I usually go for 3-4 Hastes and 2-3 Refreshes per party + Enfeebling + Main Healing) (Also, if your PLD doesn't have Refresh Sanction on him, he's a dumbass and should have a towel party at his house. He should be healing himself as much as possible. Also, always keep Regen on the Pally/NIN.) Don't haste yourself, I never do in parties. I see it as a waste in MP to get 1-2 seconds off recast time. (Albeit, it's a necessity for NINs.) Also, If you use windower, get the Yarnball add-on, it takes SOOOO much work out of redmage.

[MrMageo]

Your sams epeen is too small.

You can only do that at 75 in an all /nin group with a BRD giving you ballad, and no one taking any significant dmg. You /sch spam haste and regen II pop in a movie and watch the merit points roll in. At 60 you have no chance.

Tank only, and maybe yourself. If you have extra MP at the bottom of a vert cycle drop a haste on who ever make the most use of it. (usually low delay classes like nin or thf, or big bruisers like mnk or sam).

Another trick, dont let anyone tell you how to play the job in a party, especially when they say the magic words, on my 75 ___. Parties change 73-75 and people forget that.

Prime example is watching people building a low level burn type party without a PL in Yhoat or Desert. Just sit back and wait for the shouts for raises.

[Auro]

This is lol for me...

I've been hasting myself since I got it. Always. Me first every round. When I don't, it's like a big deal to me. Honestly, the only reason I do that, is because I read it in some guide and thought, well they know more than I do...

It will be tough to give up solely because it's a big indicator that the other hastes will wear soon... :/ Pretty lame I know.


For the record, the thf was the leader of that party. 80% of the parties past 55 are "tp burn" parties. Seriously every party but TWO i've been in since then, I have been the only healer, maybe a brd, 3 melees and tank. Otherwise 4 melees, a tank and me.

The only burn party that HAS worked, was with pld drgx2 brd/whm, brd/cor and me, rdm/blm. This party was ridiculously impossible to guage and I had a blast.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Auro

It will be tough to give up solely because it's a big indicator that the other hastes will wear soon... :/ Pretty lame I know.

You haste when you refresh. Refresh self, Haste person 1, Refresh person 1, Haste person 2, etc. It works out well because Haste takes up the recast time for Refresh and Refresh takes up the recast time for Haste. Haste should never wear on anyone and you look like a GOD!

[Phanex]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

You haste when you refresh. Refresh self, Haste person 1, Refresh person 1, Haste person 2, etc. It works out well because Haste takes up the recast time for Refresh and Refresh takes up the recast time for Haste. Haste should never wear on anyone and you look like a GOD!

Like she said, Only time i cast Haste on me is to help me keep the cycle going so i'll know when it wears off the others. I'm too lazy to keep reading to see when it drops.