[Callisto]

My concern is usually more on casting/recast times, back when all I had was Warlock's Chapeau +1 and Duelist's Tabard it was rarely an issue, but now that I generally end up casting Refresh/Haste in Goliard Saio/Duelist's Chapeau for the MP my casting/recast times are already noticeably longer, lumping more on to it if I'm trying to keep a 3-4 person cycle going on either makes it kind of long.

Either way, like I said the only time I could even see getting a lot of use out of it would be when I had no crowds to control, were fighting something that doesn't specifically need/is immune to Stun, and we have others to take care of all the status curing, leaving me free to nuke. This at least for me narrows it down to basically Sea, and that's about all I can think of.

[Karinya]

Refresh and Sublimation stacking would be totally sick. Sublimation is subbable and Refresh can be cast on others - so not only RDM/SCH but any /SCH (or full SCH) in a party with a RDM could get in on that.

Yes, it's true that BRD/SCH and COR/SCH can stack their native MP buffs with Sublimation. But then they're limited to the max MP and spell list of SCH37, because neither of those is a native MP user. They can provide their buffs to stack with a RDM or a SCH or a /SCH's own MP recovery - but they could do that with a RDM anyway, and besides, those two jobs are more buff-focused than any others, so it's not unreasonable to have some buffs that are just better than other jobs' buffs.


It seems to me that the main application for RDM/SCH would be main healing. You could leave addendum:white on if you need (most) status cures, and still have light arts and penury to help with MP costs. The main losses relative to /WHM would be curagas, erase and reraise; in exchange you get regen II, and B+-skilled drain and aspir if you aren't using addendum and have time to switch arts. (Otherwise you can still cast drain and aspir but have to use your native skill instead of Dark Arts-conferred skill.)

For nuking you get to raise your skill to B+ (which is pretty big) and get the DA cost reduction as well as Parsimony and Alacrity, and still have the abovementioned B+-skilled drain and aspir, but you still lack tier IV nukes, so I have to wonder why you would bother trying unless your LS was short on BLMs and SCHs. If you are still filling some support and backup-healing roles as well, you may be forced to switch arts or accept 20% cost and casting time penalties to refresh, haste, and cures.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Karinya

For nuking you get to raise your skill to B+ (which is pretty big)

I've nuked against a rdm/sch and I was rdm/whm and there was no huge dmg difference. It was pretty even and there were times I was resisted and the /sch did more and times the /sch was resisted and I did more. I was really watching too because I was thinking of leveling sch again (also because my son keeps bugging me ><) and there just wasn't enough difference to impress me.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by TheGrandMom

I've nuked against a rdm/sch and I was rdm/whm and there was no huge dmg difference. It was pretty even and there were times I was resisted and the /sch did more and times the /sch was resisted and I did more. I was really watching too because I was thinking of leveling sch again (also because my son keeps bugging me ><) and there just wasn't enough difference to impress me.

Elemental Magic doesn't deal damage based on skill level. What it does do is improve the rate at which targets resist damage. So aside from a point or two of INT, yeah, a RDM/SCH isn't going to hit any harder than a RDM/WHM on an unresisted spell. But with B+ skill they'll get resisted less often on anything that matters.

That and they'll spend 10% less MP on the nuke (50% less if they use Parsimony, which they'd be smart to), so there's some efficiency to be had there as well.

I'm not a huge fan of RDM/SCH, but it definitely has its place if you don't need as much heavy status removal support. I'm particularly fond of it for meriting on RDM since it still gives status removal options and significantly extends MP endurance.


Icemage

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Icemage

I'm not a huge fan of RDM/SCH, but it definitely has its place if you don't need as much heavy status removal support. I'm particularly fond of it for meriting on RDM since it still gives status removal options and significantly extends MP endurance.

The no Erase deal kind of kills it for me, at least on birds, as if a DD gets hit with a stray reflected Elegy they're pretty much boned without /WHM. It's the same reason I don't like the idea of RDM/DNC healing, since Healing Waltz won't remove negative BRD song effects.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by Callisto

The no Erase deal kind of kills it for me,

Ditto. Most of the melee I pt with are whiners and the instant something is cast on them they are telling me in pt chat.....even though I'm in the middle of casting the damn spell. >< If I didn't have erase, I think some of their heads would explode. LOL

[Icemage]

If you've got a BRD/WHM or COR/WHM in a merit party you can ask them to cover Erase for you. It rarely ever needs to get cast in any merit camp anyhow, and for all other aspects RDM/SCH outperforms RDM/WHM in merit parties.


Icemage

[Karinya]

Ask your bard to stop elegy'ing birds then, if it's such a big problem. It's not like their attacks are worth worrying about, whether they're elegy'd or not.

Or you could just tell the melee to suck it up - elegy is a separate effect from haste and march, which will offset it anyway.

[Callisto]

Elegy is the best spell to pull with, as it suffers from a much shorter animation delay before you can start moving compared to other songs, and saying the offset each other is like saying it's ok to TP in N.Hands and Rutter Sabatons if you wear W.Turban and Swift Belt to offset the Slow. I almost never have a /WHM that isn't the main healer, BRDs are /NIN for pulling and the COR is generally myself or another in my LS who use DD subs. I'll stick with my /WHM and Erase, or just bring a SCH or WHM/SCH, lol.