[Callisto]

Haha, I hope you do have plenty of time W3K, I copied it into Word, and it comes out to 60 pages in Word using single spacing and 8 point Verdana! XD

At any rate, here it is, if you guys do have time to look it over, feedback is appreciated^^b

[WishMaster3K]

Is that a challenge!!! /em gets slapped

Na, I have a TON of time. Or at the very least, something to read on the train. Go Go Free Office printing!

Edit:
I like the first page already. And 60 pages of Text is nothing that frightens me, because I weekly do project completion reports with pictures and Visio Diagrams and tables and etc. Text is a vacation.

Oh yes. you as a sexy MFer, I agree. I'm not sure that Manatees like what you do to them on weekends, but it's ok.

[Callisto]

I'm glad you suggested putting it into Word format, it helped me find a bunch of typos that had slipped past me previously, and I'm a bit of a spelling/grammar nazi, so I was able to go on an easier search & destroy mission. :D

[WishMaster3K]

I guess I'll update as I read.

edit:
NVM, I'm a retard. -_-

Edit 2:
LoL, I'm going to compile a list of my favorite quotes from this guide.
"Not to mention that you'd be going from wearing a pimp hat to wearing a fucking tiara. No. Just no."

LMAO

Oh, also, found 1 typo.



"One trick you could do for these is to change to Windurst and do the missions to get them, then change to Bastok, since Bastok sucks and never owns anything you'd pretty much be able to use them anywhere!"

You're a bastard.

[Callisto]

Dammit lol! I'm going to go back through the Word file and dig for them, and probably fix the grammar for the many instances of 'alot' and 'ahold'. I got lazy earlier, but it just irks me to have them in there!

[WishMaster3K]

Actually, you put "me" when it should have been "be". I'll find it later when I'm rereading for quotes.

[Callisto]

Haha, yeah I found it and fixed it already, as well as the 'alot/ahold' deal. I've made some other little changes here and there, that's the problem with this damn thing lol, I'm never done with it! Going to replace the current link with an updated version sometime today or tomorrow. Most of the changes are minor. I need to keep better track of what I change however, so that I can fix them on the forums that I wrote them on as well!

The file sharing idea was great though, this way I can just update one file instead of updating several different forums posts, thanks for the idea!

I want to jazz it up soon, add in some sprites and make the format a little better, find a way to make the 'tangents' stick out from the rest of the guide so it's easier to tell when they end and the guide begins again.

[WishMaster3K]

Tangent #7 "because the can do it well. " they. Same thing when talking about weapons camp in refering to them as WARs.

Ok, so I think I have a review of it so far, and I'm only halfway through. (Holy shyt this thing is long. No homo >_> )

I like it. It's informative, it's amusing, it's well constructed.

Things for your readers to keep in mind are:
A) Every RDMs style is different, so this is a guide based on your comfort playstyle and they should readjust accordingly. For instance, I have a difference in opinion when dealing with buffs, but that doesn't make your method any less effective.

Tangent: You're an Elvaan and I'm Taru, so I have certain DNA Luxuries that are afforded to me in this instance, so it's understood.

B) You took the time to construct it, and anyone else reading it needs to STFU or GTFO and write their own guide.

C) Calling Dagger users Nancies. Hilarious. I approve.

D) Being practical and not biased and giving a very good viewpoint of everything covered.

So yeah, I like it. Can't say I NEED it, per se, but I imagine that it is a very useful thing to have handy. If I knew Word half as well as I should, I'd assist you with making in-project hyper links and a Dynamic table of contents that links based on page number and scales to accommodates updates.. But I'm retarded.

Good guide. Lengthy as SHYT, but good. I'll definitely be working on those quotes while I LFG.

[Callisto]

Thanks a ton for looking it over. And you're absolutely correct on point A, and I try to point that out at least once, that it's a guide on how I play RDM, rather than on how one is supposed to.

I probably will do what you're talking about, add wiki links for the equipment and spells, and whatnot, but I'll have to do that at home, as I spent most of the time actually writing it at work lol, and they noticed the dip in productivity. Luckily I got a ridiculous amount of work done this week and made my co-workers all look like slackers, so eyes or back off of me!

Edit: Cleaned up typos and a few minor changes, updated the link, as well as added the link to the OP.

[WishMaster3K]

Good guide. I actually read the entire thing. Very entertaining and informative!!!! >:O

MUCH WIN!

Oh and I'm totally a noob at Dyna- Ok, anything EndGame that isn't Sky, so I'll definitely be refering to those sections a lot. I wasn't even aware there WAS a "Puller RDM." That sounds like an awful amount of work ._.

[Callisto]

That may be specific to the way that FraggleForce does Dynamis, the guide was originally written on theer forums which is why that stuff is included(I've retired from Dynamis, so I needed something for other people to read to step up and take my place). Basically we have a THF/NIN puller/kiter, and a RDM to take care of them and control crowds.

And yes, it is an absolute shit-ton of work, which is why I don't do it anymore XD.

Aside from that, Table of Contents added, link updated again.

[WishMaster3K]

Where are the normal Mid-Day Posters? Don't tell me everyone is actually doing work..

[IfritnoItazura]

I just started reading it, but already found a few issues.

How to tell the difference? When I say that a certain spell or ability is affected by a certain something, this is generally a fact, or as close as possible to one, and I have researched it.

Examples:
QUOTE
Slow potency is based on a function of your MND minus the mob's MND.
Refresh gives 3/MP per tick for a total of 150 MP over 2.5 minutes.
Callisto is a sexy MFer.

When I say that you should do something a certain way, or that something is best, that is generally an opinion.

Examples:
QUOTE
Stacking MP as RDM is severely over-rated.
RDM can in fact be a respectable melee job when equipped for it.
Avesta is not in fact the greatest RDM evar.

There is not a single "should" in your examples of opinions.

To be honest, there is no real difference between the ways you state opinions and facts; they are not properly labeled, and I couldn't have differentiated between most of them had I no prior knowledge of Red Mage. This problem seems to permeate the entire document.

* * *

Many parts of the guide lack needed precision.
Example 1:

Enfeebler: This is a RDM's natural calling. Our only A+ skill, and the only job that has an A+ skill in this field.

"Enfeebler" is a role; the skill you are referring to is actually "Enfeebling Magic". Yet, Enfeebling Magic is not the only way to enfeeble or weaken monsters; there are elemental debuffs (Burn, Choke, etc.), Nijutsu (apparently stronger than RDM's corresponding tier one enfeebling spells), and Songs from Bard, not to mention COR's unique ability to upgrade enfeebling tier.

RDMs bring a wide array of capable tools for weakening monsters, but we can and should work with other enfeeblers, and should not be territorial about this role.

Example 2:

At times you'll party with other mages like BLMs and WHMs, or other support jobs like BRDs and CORs. For the most part their abilities will compliment yours, rather than compete with, ...

One of the things that helps a RDM fill a specific role is obviously its choice of subjobs. Different subjobs are better than others at different things, but there is no one single subjob for RDM.

I'll admit this is a pet peeve of mine, and other people likely won't find it problematic, but the official term for roles BRDs and RDMs play is Support Role Job, not "support job". Instead, Support Job is what you incorrectly refer to as "subjob".

Those are the terms in Auto-Translator, and it's my opinion that guide writers do a great disservice for their readers when they perpetuate the incorrect usage of "Support Job".

* * *

SMN and BRD: These subs are sometimes used for the extra 1/tick refresh that can be gained from SMN's Auto-Refresh Job Trait, or BRD's Mage's Ballad song. Otherwise they don't really offer anything in terms of stats or abilities that are beneficial to RDM, aside from /SMN having the largest MP pool. If you give up a boatload of utility spells and abilities for the extra 1/tick and think that you're doing something good, you're an idiot. Quit RDM now and don't talk to me again.

While you are entitled to your own opinions, /BRD above Lv.50 is possibly one of the best support job a RDM can use in a mage heavy party without a BRD or COR.

In a party with lots of magic users, a RDM's casting duty is drastically reduced beyond Refresh, and Ballad lets other mages do even more. This kind of parties are not the norm, but they do exist, and /BRD fit them very well.

Also, the MP-free Finale is nice to have as well, for buff happy critters.

[Callisto]

Thanks for the input, II. I'll be updating/revising this often until I'm satisfied with it, I'll keep your notes in mind when doing so.

[Callisto]

Just a couple of responses, I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

To be honest, there is no real difference between the ways you state opinions and facts; they are not properly labeled, and I couldn't have differentiated between most of them had I no prior knowledge of Red Mage. This problem seems to permeate the entire document.

The differentiation generally comes only from where math is involved. If I'm giving an equation for a certain spell or statistic, I've researched it to the best of my ability and am giving only what has been comfirmed or is generally believed to be true among the people who care about the stuff.

The exception here being the formula I assume for Magic Accuracy, which I explicity state several times is not confirmed, just the best assumption I can possibly make given my understanding of other game mechanics.

Also, it does state that the guide does assume that you have some prior knowledge of RDM, as it is meant to be an endgame guide and not a 1-75 guide.

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

RDMs bring a wide array of capable tools for weakening monsters, but we can and should work with other enfeeblers, and should not be territorial about this role.

I don't say that RDM should be territorial of it, and I do give examples of how RDM debuffs work with debuffs from other jobs and how to work with them in the Debuffing section.

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

I'll admit this is a pet peeve of mine, and other people likely won't find it problematic, but the official term for roles BRDs and RDMs play is Support Role Job, not "support job". Instead, Support Job is what you incorrectly refer to as "subjob".

This I concede on, as I can see how it'd irk some people, and I've adjusted it for the next time I post an updated version. Thank you for pointing it out.

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

While you are entitled to your own opinions, /BRD above Lv.50 is possibly one of the best support job a RDM can use in a mage heavy party without a BRD or COR.

In a party with lots of magic users, a RDM's casting duty is drastically reduced beyond Refresh, and Ballad lets other mages do even more. This kind of parties are not the norm, but they do exist, and /BRD fit them very well.

I can concede a little here too, I suppose. There are rare times when you'd be put in that situation, I guess I have a slight bias as I also have a 75 BRD, and to me it's common sense to just switch to BRD in a setup like that, but I guess not everyone has a BRD to go with their RDM. I could tone down the snark on it probably. /SMN is still for idiots.