[WishMaster3K]

The way I see it, we shouldn't care if another job get's a Self spell that doesn't take away our usefulness-

For instance, other jobs being able to sub RDM and get Phalanx and Dispel and Stoneskin.

RDMs have so much more to offer that giving jobs to ability to do that is fine by me: We're still lusted after.

Making Refresh any lower than 37, and the entire RDM community would be knocking at SE's door.

Likewise, I agree with your statements regarding Reraise, Aeni. Us having Reraise wouldn't affect WHM's invitability. Just like RDMs having Warp wouldn't.

It's not like parties would be saying "We don't need to invite WHMs(or BLMs) anymore because the RDM can do that themselves! ^^"

A more recent example is the change to THF a while ago (Assassin) that let them be more efficient at what other jobs were ripping off, still leaving THFs with a job.

And wtf? RDM with Divine skill. I understand that, yes, we can sub PLD or WHM and utilize it just like we can sub DRK or BLM.. But talk about worthless skills..

Edit in Response to Callisto's addition:
Yeah, starting with a skill of 0, BarElementals start at 40 and go up 1 for every 5 points of Enhancing magic.

I'd like to get mine to over 100, just for the sake of doing so, but a WHM with Relic armor can natively get higher than me with my AF tights and Enhancing Necklace.

I suppose it's the little things that matter, and in the long run, it would be completely possible for a RDM to have two skills that go over 300, but I don't plan on meritting for Phalanx II, and I already capped Ice Magic and Convert..

[BurningPanther]

I got mad beef with the Divine skill as well. I don't believe we should rely on a sub to use something we have native skill in. Get rid of it or give us a Divine spell, I don't really care, so long as they resolve it.

I'm very much contemplating putting full merits into Enhancing, just for the hell of it. I'd rather like cap out on En-spells with out having to go nuts on gear.

[Mhurron]

RDM used to have a divine spell. They just didn't take the skill away when they changed that spell to Enfeebling.

Personally I see complaining about the Divine skill as bitching for the sake of bitching.

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by WishMaster3K

I suppose it's the little things that matter, and in the long run, it would be completely possible for a RDM to have two skills that go over 300, but I don't plan on meritting for Phalanx II, and I already capped Ice Magic and Convert..

Just from my experience: I use Phalanx II more than any of my other merited spells. I ended up dropping Dia 3 to boost Bio 3 up to level 2, and I may end up dropping Paralyze II to boost Phalanx up to level 2 as well. I don't use Paralyze II that often, and at level one it doesn't seem to proc so much more often than Paralyze I that it's worth spending 6x the MP on it. Phalanx II however, has been absolutely great for Dynamis and Gods, and for times when I duo/trio with DD that I can't hold hate over but who take more damage than I do. However I did run into trouble using Phal 2 for xp parties, puks were hitting the PLDs for 15-20, they couldn't lose enough hp to cure bomb for hate!

I'd recommend at least trying Phal 2 if you have the group 2 space open.

Just ftr, otherwise I went 3 convert, 2 ice/wind/earth acc, and 1 thunder acc. Shaving even as little as 1 minute off of convert actually has made a huge difference!

[BurningPanther]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

RDM used to have a divine spell. They just didn't take the skill away when they changed that spell to Enfeebling.
Personally I see complaining about the Divine skill as bitching for the sake of bitching.

Yeah, I know Dia's history. I also heard a rumour that we used to have Banish as well.

It might be bitching, but it's still a pointless hole that needs filling. I think my biggest gripe comes from the idea of such a simple oversight, easily corrected, seemingly escaping or being beneath the developers' notice for nearly five years, that's just pathetic to me.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by BurningPanther

Dead weight is still dead weight.

For something to be dead weight it has to be holding you back. RDM Divine skill doesn't so it's not dead weight. Also given RDM recent role as a healer only, more RDM are going /WHM giving them access to a few Divine spells. You could skill it up if you really wanted to.

Removing it would do no more good then leaving it so what would be the point?

[Electricity Gone Human]

Originally Posted by Callisto

Capping your Enhancing does in fact blow goats. It took me months of spamming barspells while lfg or waiting for events to start. However, I can't recommend doing so enough, especially if you like to solo. The difference it's had on my buffs is huge.

Haha, no kidding. But if it's ANYTHING that I need capped, it's both Healing Magic and Elemental Magic. Dark Magic too, but I'm leveling Dark Knight later on anyway, so that will benefit my Red Mage.

Hell...all three of those are pains in the ass to cap.

[BurningPanther]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

For something to be dead weight it has to be holding you back. RDM Divine skill doesn't so it's not dead weight. Also given RDM recent role as a healer only, more RDM are going /WHM giving them access to a few Divine spells. You could skill it up if you really wanted to.

Well, the main healing phenomenon ain't absolute, as I don't subscribe to it. You gotta go /WHM to skill it up, and seeing as how I heartily boycott that, it isn't an option. Though there is /PLD, one of these days...
... but I digress. Once again, there is no reason to have to resort to a sub to use a native skill. Native skill should equal native spells. If it doesn't, then...

Originally Posted by Mhurron

Removing it would do no more good then leaving it so what would be the point?

Exactly. WHAT'S THE POINT? If it's gonna sit there with no use, may as well remove it.

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by BurningPanther

If it's gonna sit there with no use, may as well remove it.

Leaving it generates no extra work, removing it does, therefore leaving it is the correct choice.

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Electricity Gone Human

Haha, no kidding. But if it's ANYTHING that I need capped, it's both Healing Magic and Elemental Magic. Dark Magic too, but I'm leveling Dark Knight later on anyway, so that will benefit my Red Mage.

Hell...all three of those are pains in the ass to cap.

Best way to cap those: Besieged. For Healing Magic, wait for an Undead Swarm one, find a skeleton or ghost, and spam Cure 1 on it. You'll get .4/.5 skillups all over. For the others same thing, just spam Stone 1 or Bio/Stun. Besieged is tops for magic skillups.

[BurningPanther]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

Leaving it generates no extra work, removing it does, therefore leaving it is the correct choice.

In some countries, they don't call that right, they call it plain lazy. That is the dumbest explanation I've ever heard.

I rather doubt the effort required is so truly gargantuan that they have to interrupt their snack time or porn viewing or whatever other project they have on their plate to simply add a Divine spell to the list, or take the skill out entirely.

Effort required or not, it's like a bad translation that's gone without correction, and it's overdue. Like since the beta, overdue. That's a lot of overdue.

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Callisto

Best way to cap those: Besieged. For Healing Magic, wait for an Undead Swarm one, find a skeleton or ghost, and spam Cure 1 on it. You'll get .4/.5 skillups all over. For the others same thing, just spam Stone 1 or Bio/Stun. Besieged is tops for magic skillups.

I got an assload of Healing Magic skill ups from curing the Generals. If you can get one targeted and spam cures of any level on him, you'll get skill ups. I went up 3 levels in one Besieged.

I think one more Besieged should do my Dark magic skill (199/200) or my Elemental Skill (229/230) to the cap, which is great. I like seeing numbers get capped. Besieged has also been good for my sword skill, though I only melee until the melee items they provide be have been used up.

[massaranger]

refreshaga would be ok not to godly if you made it do normal refresh 3 tick mp for 3 mins and cost 180 mp

[BurningPanther]

While Refreshga is not a bad idea, it doesn't fit us. We've got ONE native AoE spell, every thing else we use is meant on a one-on-one basis.

If people need 3MP per tic as AoE so badly, just get a BRD for Ballads 1 and 2.

[Taskmage]

Leaving divine skill on rdm does no harm. Removing it means we could no longer use Banish or Flash effectively, so it would be a trivial loss. Why bother to do an insignificant amount of work to achieve and insignificantly negative effect?

Even if they moved Dia back to divine, it would be the same thing. Dia gets no benefit from skill other than the accuracy of its not-worth-mentioning initial damage. If they made it a divine spell again that would just mean we can't get skillups from it, blms and drks lose an unresistable spell they could sub for easy enfeebling skillups, and the damage would be slightly less accurate. Overall, a negative change.

Why even look up from your porn to make the game a little worse?