[Taskmage]

Hmm Elite Beret .. That's a much cheaper and better looking alternative to the Wise Cap I've been using ...

So long as we've got this rdm merit discussion going, I hope everyone will tolerate a slight derail. Looking at the magic skill category, I didn't see anything too tempting to put points into before. Full enhancing merits seem like a heck of a lot of work for one more point of reduction from phalanx. I appreciate drain and aspir but not enough to merit them. Elemental and enfeebling only benefit in accuracy, the former I don't care much about and the latter doesn't seem to be necessary from the comments in this thread so far. Does anyone have any recommendations on what, if anything, to spend on in this category?

Blue magic skill seems to have a direct effect on blu's damage and summoning magic skill will presumably be getting a worthwhile effect in the next patch. Likely I will get blu up to the point where I can buy merits, so I'm thinking I'd be better off not bothering with the category on rdm.

[Raydeus]

Oh the Beret, I forgot about that one, it's really nice to have. I've been playing PLD for too long.

There's one question to which I haven't found a good answer for. How much do skill and stats affect proc. rate on spells like Para?

I would asume +4 skill from the beret is better then the +5 M. acc from the fugly cap. But what I want to know is if skill does indeed enhance the effect (and duration) of spells. Because from what I've seen a bigger difference stat-wise makes a more noticeable difference.

Which is why I try to focus on +MND/+INT and just use as little +skill as possible, in this case Tabard and Beret only (although most of the times I forget about the beret so I leave it in my MH ).

That would help at the time of making the decision about what to merit for magic skills.

[Aeni]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Not really, no. With Gravity, most HNMLS use it sparingly if it all - the trick is to make your tanks faster, not the monsters slower. Thus, NIN AF boots and Crimson Leggings are far more important than whether Gravity lands or not - due to the resistance effect and the lack of reliability of Gravity overall, no one depends on it if they have any other choice available to them. It's nice when it's there, but no strategy revolves around it unless you're maybe a solo RDM trying to kite/sleep/nuke a NM.


Icemage

Gravity should be used on HNMs for these reasons (as far as I'm concerned):

-No tanks ... so a RDM kiting KB in this example after a claim and waiting for a tank or possibly having to do it him/herself on a /WAR while BLMs and SMNs work on the monster would want gravity and would use it VERY OFTEN.

-Soloing NMs. See Avesta.

I have to agree with Taskmage. When gravity lands successfully and runs a full duration, it makes things very easy when kiting a monster. Or even buying time for party members (This is another strategy in multiple NM fights where majority of a group is trying to bring down a monster quickly while a few others kite the other monsters in order to create separation - reducing aoe disastors - and buying time)

Having it resisted over and over means more and more mana being burned trying to keep the caster alive while waiting to recast gravity. That in itself makes all the difference in the world.

[WishMaster3K]

In terms of SKill, there is never a point where you'll have "too much skill."
(But further down, I explain situations where having more skill is simply detrimental)

Mostly because skill increases add to potency AND duration. The Wise Gear to me is situational and I macro different things for different purposes.

For instance, on Paralyze and Slow, I use the Corresponding Staff, Errant Body, Wise Cap, Promise Badge, and Errant Slops.

For Silence, however, which is still a MND spell, I use Wind Staff, Wise Cap, AFBody, Enfeebling Torque, and Wise Braconi.

At my level, sticking the spells isn't the problem, it's just that spells like Paralyze and Slow benefit from potency, while spells like Silence just need to land and stay landed.

I've also noticed an inverse relationship between Potency and Duration. If I stack enfeebling for Paralyze and Slow, they'll stick for long fights, but they won't proc often. If I stack MND, they'll be strong as bejeezus, but won't last particularly long.

Also, on Elemental Magic, I use the Corresponding stave, AF Hat, Chasuble, Wise Braconi and Elemental Torque. On exp, RDM abilities in nuking are not at the level where we can simply stack INT and expect decent results. I suppose in sky during MBs, or in Bibiki Bay on VTs or something, I could easily get away with it. (And I was breaking 750 consistently once i stacked INT and only nuked on MB). But since I hardly MB anymore, and I only nuke during sky, Magic Accuracy is a big deal.

When we have access to the JSE at 72, it's not worth it. It's best to cycle between Errant and AF at that point. At 75 however, there is a wealth of gear we can use. I don't even have that Redish gear with all the Haste and stuff yet (but by golly, I WANT it >_>).

So to answer your question Ray, it's situational ^^

[Raydeus]

Originally Posted by WishMaster3K

So to answer your question Ray, it's situational ^^

Ya I think pretty much the same.

I guess I'll keep doing what I've been doing so far, except for that last wave of Demons in D. Xarcabard everything else seems to be working properly with the gear macros I use right now.

[Icemage]

For RDM, Enfeebling Merits are totally overkill in most situations.

I merited it for my WHM mostly because I'm fond of being able to put things to Sleep when I'm getting attacked in Dynamis and no one's there to pick up the slack due to the huge swarms. It's also quite useful if you're a BLM, since it makes Sleepga II much more likely to stick and stay.


Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

True, but what else would we merit? Even if I merit elemental, and I get gear, my nuking won't be on par with half-assed BLMs.

So I figure, take a sharp knife and make it sharper.

[Kirsteena]

I ended maxing out Enfeebling magic, and in 5 full levels of soloing blm, I have had sleep resisted once... I am a bit of a skill freak, and the fact that I only use rdm at endgame, means it seems more logical to do that.

As for other catagories - I have yet to be sold on any - working on gathering up merits for it though.

[eva00r]

Ice+5
Wind+5

or

Ice+4
Wind+4
Convert+2

Both are great.

[Taskmage]

So I was thinking earlier .. nobody has disputed the assertion so far that rdm merits are largely decorative in exp and most endgame activities, so tailoring specifically to those things seems kind of silly. What would serve as a better acid test? ... I wonder how Avesta merited? ... Didn't somebody make a thread about that?

Originally Posted by Dragonsword

At link:
http://redmage.k-free.net/others.html
I trust they are:
HP +8
Int +5
Enfeebling Magic +8
Sword skill +8
Dagger +4
Enemy Critical Hit Rate +4
Spell Interruption +4
For Rdm
Convert timing +5
Ice Magic Accuracy +5
Slow II +3
Bio III +3
For Blm
Ice and Thunder Magic attack +5 each
Every II ancient magic +1 each
Read also his analysis of Rdm merit spells and respective rating for solo and partying
^^)b.

Originally Posted by arkaine23

Maximum Enfeebling skill, Ice accuracy, and INT for Bind and Blizzard III. Some of the hardest solos he does are /NIN with Bind kiting while DOT'ing with Poison II. Sometimes Bio also if mob TP moves are not horribly hazardous, hence Bio III for better inital damage and an extra 2/tick over Bio II, in addition attack down making melee soloing easier. With his extra mp in a covert cycle, he drops nukes. Blizzard III usually being RDM's best nuke. He's got W. Legs, which can make gravity less useful (also the fact that resistence to Gravity builds over time). Seems he's also a BLM so the INT and Enfeebling merits are no surprise. Being taru it makes sense to go for hp over mp. Full convert merits for a soloist is no surprise either. All you're really doing is making yourself last from Convert to Convert while needling away at mob hp.

In context Avesta's choices make a lot of sense, but some of them are just so specialized it makes me cringe. Max merits in spell interruption? We've discussed nikkariaoe and aquaveil on the boards before and dismissed them as negligible; those provide -25% and -20% spell interruption respectively, so -8% from merits should be imperceptible, right? But then again I've seen Avesta getting pounded by platoon scorpions and still pull of Thundaga III whereas I died last night from a DC interrupting my Stoneskin cast five consecutive times ...

Likewise, Bio III is a perfect fit for his preferred style of soloing, DoTing things to death, and to max its duration for mp efficiency makes sense for him, but I couldn't see myself putting the second and third points in that instead of into Dia III or Phalanx II.

The absence of wind accuracy merits along with arkaine's explanation underscores what Icemage was saying about kiting with Gravity. If you have access to crimson cuisses, strider boots, and things of that nature, it's more reliable to speed up the tank than slow down the mob, which rather reduces the importance of Gravity. I'm still going to have to get some firsthand experience before making a decision, but the choice between ice, wind, and convert merits doesn't seem as hard anymore.

[Jei]

That's really interesting choice of merit.

From my personal experience, my LS just started doing Sea farm recently.
I felt *very* left out without phalanx II lol ;_;
We meed PLD tank for almost every pop. And for 2 whole run I was removed from the PLD PT for other Rdm with phalanx II

I got myself 2 levels of Phalanx II and now I'm so happy hehe ^^v

1 dia3, 2 para II, 2 phalanx at the moment. I'm going for 3 para II.

[WishMaster3K]

And ask the RDMs who have Paralyze II, even at lvl 3, how many of them have Ice Merits.

I plan on making my Paralyze II t3h s3x beyond all belief. Oh, how do the merits for that "Other" category work? Does it go (1,2,3,4), (1,2,3,3)?

Since you said that by merits, you can get -8% on Spell Interruption, so I'm assuming four levels, but for my own stat tracking purposes, how much points are needed for each consecutive level?

[Taskmage]

[1>2>3>4] sayeth the wiki, so ten points.

[Jei]

Some people said the cap for merit 2 will be raised soon? Any idea?

[Kirsteena]

God I hope so - would make life so much easier...

My ls pld keep bugging me for Phalanx II - and I don't want to be a Phalanx Battery - get a smn in the party!