[Sepa]

RedMage is Enfeeb/Support correct?

Slow/Dia/Bio/ect. and Refresh/Haste/Regain/ect.


I need help, I want to know if this is a good order to cast spells?

I'm a level 50 Redmage/ 25 BlackMage


Lets say I'm in a Party with;






(1st cast)|| (2nd cast)|| (3rd cast)|| (4th cast)

Rdm/Blm (1st)Refresh || " " "|| " " " "|| " "


Whm/Smn " " "|| " " "|| " " "|| (1st)Refresh


Blm/Whm " " "|| " " "|| (1st)Refresh|| " " "


Thf/Nin " " "|| (3rd)Haste|| " " "|| " " "


Mnk/War (3rd)Haste|| " " "|| (2nd)Regain|| " " "


Pld/War (2nd)Regain|| (1st)Refresh|| (3rd)Haste|| " " "


Mob " " "|| (2nd)Slow|| " " "|| (2nd)DiaII (3rd) BioII



>>Edit<< (1st cast) Refresh=RDM, Regain=PLD, Haste=MNK
(2nd cast) Refresh=PLD, Slow=Mob, Haste=THF
(3rd cast) Refresh=BLM, Regain=MNK, Haste=PLD
(4th cast) Refesh=WHM, DiaII=Mob, BioII=Mob


Then start all over again, but with different Enfeeb on the Mob.
Do you see an error in the way I cast?
If so, can you please help!

Thank!


Oh, one more thing;
WhiteMages get Regain and Regain II right?
If so, why don't they ever cast it?
Is it just the WHM's I have been in a Party with?

[Jei]

top priority - silence the mages, sleep the links, and dispel spikes/defense buff.

Spells to keep track of - refresh. Start refreshing from yourself. Then when it's ready, refresh PLD, then other mages. If you have Drk, add him to your cycle when his MP reaches a certain point. I refresh them when they reach 60-70%MP

Normally between each refresh you'll be able to cast around 2 spells. That's a good time for other enfeeble or haste if you have to.

Enfeebles to use - slow paralyze gravity. If you have ninja, he may want to do the slow/paralyze for hate. Ask him first. Gravity is good to throw in at the beginning of the fight. It helps not only with accuracy but when mages got aggro the tanks will have more time before it reaches the mages.

Haste - tanks first. PLD, Nin, they can really use haste.
Then any DD if you feel like it. Up to you.

[kiffkin]

I'm not at the Refresh stage yet so I can't really comment on the setup. Just wanted to say that when I'm main healing (or soloing), I use Regen a lot. I've noticed that many main healers don't though, possibly as people may not be aware of the mana efficiency. Also, there's an annoying tendancy for me to cast Regen on someone, only for someone else to throw a high Cure on them. Fair enough if they're tanking and in trouble but it's annoying when it's for someone who's not in any particular danger.

Incidentally, are you casting both DiaII and BioII, or is that just a one or the other depending on the mob thing? On the off chance that you are, Dia and Bio don't stack, with BioII>DiaII>Bio>Dia (i.e. a higher spell will overwrite a lower one).

[Aeni]

What I normally do is similar to what Jei outlined above.

(1) Against spellcasting mobs, cast Silence first.
(2) Against spellcasting mobs, follow with dispel.
(3) Repeat (2) as necessary, as mob may have multiple buffs.
(4) Tank is hasted first.
(5) If there's a NIN tank, cast Slow first. Follow up with Paralyze if NIN gets resisted or if he/she doesn't bother casting ninjutsu.
(6) Slowly make your rounds with refresh and haste, keeping enfeebling up and provide emergency healing where applicable.
(7) Magic bursting/nuking is last priority. Only do so if the situation warrants it.

On Dia and Bio. Most parties want Dia up only. Do not overwrite Dia! If you see the BLM or DRK in PT just spamming Bio against party's wishes, please let them know to refrain from doing so. Vast majority do not know that Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia. This goes true with JP parties, except you may have a difficult time conveying your point across.

[Patchinko]

Originally Posted by Sepa

(4th cast) Refesh=WHM, DiaII=Mob, BioII=Mob

Do not cast Bio II after casting Dia II. Do not use Bio II at all unless the mob has exceptionally high attack and you have a PLD or WAR tanking or your PT is lacking melee DPS. As someone else said, Bio II overwrites Dia II, but Dia II is more valuable in a melee-heavy PT because it reduces mob defense.

Originally Posted by Sepa

Oh, one more thing;
WhiteMages get Regain and Regain II right?
If so, why don't they ever cast it?
Is it just the WHM's I have been in a Party with?

Yes, it's the WHM you've been in PT with. Some do not seem to know how useful it is, or prefer instant gratification over efficiency. In my opinion, for healing DD or mages who temporarily pull aggro and get hit once or twice but are not in danger of dying any time soon, Regen is a more mana conservative way of healing them.

It saddens me that we RDM are not able to use Regen II or Regen III.

Double Post Edited:
Oh, the Bio/Dia thing has only been said three times now, somebody else say it!＾＾；

[zagex]

In terms of haste, I'll haste the tank after I refresh myself. Haste lasts a little bit longer than refresh, so for the tank, he'll pretty much always have haste. Then I continue refreshing or doing whatever else, athough silence is number 1 priority if it's needed.
As for the rest of the hastes, I'll let it wear off and recast it once I see the message. Those few seconds of not having haste for a DD aren't going to make or break anything, whereas for a Nin, they might be casting utsu:ni during those couple seconds.
That's my thinking.

And for Whitemages and regen 2 and 3, I wish all whitemages would cast those, but sadly only some of them do. I remember one Whm who didn't even use a light staff (I think she also didn't have a dark staff) though I remember seeing some equip worth well more than a light staff, and far less useful. /sigh. Those pts were bad with that whm. (I think there were 2 or 3 spaced out... I kept forgetting the name, though it'd sound familiar) Kept running out of mp and didn't bother resting much in the middle of fights.

[samarium]

I've been using Regen every single party since level 21. Even though it became near useless once you started getting near 40, 150 hp for 15 mp can't be beat. Needless to say, level 46 was an extremely happy one for me, and Regen II ftw!

It's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I've been levelling whm with my wife (she's rdm), I can tell you what she does that works very well.

She just lets refresh take a back seat to enfeebles and Dispel. Weakening the mob saves much more MP than refresh restores - rdm is an enfeebler first, a burst nuker/backup healer second, and a refresher third, although most parties don't understand this.

Her refresh order: self > PLD > mages > magic-using DDs (DRK & BLU).

-sam

[Aeni]

Originally Posted by samarium

She just lets refresh take a back seat to enfeebles and Dispel. Weakening the mob saves much more MP than refresh restores - rdm is an enfeebler first, a burst nuker/backup healer second, and a refresher third, although most parties don't understand this.

In the early levels, most RDMs get picked up for backup healing (Occasionally as main healer) No one needs enfeebling (I've been in Dune parties before raking in a level every 40 min so so without power leveling and without enfeebling either) and nuking is left to BLMs even at those levels.

Moving on to your 20s and 30s, you're still the stanby healer with the occasional nuking and sometimes meleeing.

30s is when people finally get around to needing "enfeebling" aka Dispel. Many tasty exp mobs needed to be dispelled and that's why they asked you to join their PT.

After 41, let's not kid ourselves. The only real reason most PT leaders will get a RDM is for refresh. Once a BRD gets Ballads I & II, people will usually go for the BRD instead of the RDM (MP Efficacy as well as Lullaby for adds and all the stat boosting songs that every melee loves) No one sees a RDM and go, "great, we got a nuker!"

Once you have gotten this far (60s) you'll see the progression to priorities as I've outlined, where your wife won't be able to do much for her PTs if she continues to view nuking more important than taking care of her party members.

[kiffkin]

Originally Posted by Aeni

In the early levels, most RDMs get picked up for backup healing (Occasionally as main healer) No one needs enfeebling (I've been in Dune parties before raking in a level every 40 min so so without power leveling and without enfeebling either) and nuking is left to BLMs even at those levels.

Dia/Bio, Paralyze and Slow at the very least should be used every fight. I've been in parties at these levels with RDMs who won't enfeeble and I'd generally get more xp soloing.

In fact I have got more xp soloing.

With WHM.

[Bishop]

Definitely paralyze. Seriously, paralyze is SO effective from the lvl u get it, all the way to 75. It completely negates a whole attack/magic spell, and it does it quite often too. Same with slow. Both low lvl spells that you should be using the day u get them.

[Ice Agent]

besides the point but why the heck is magic so damn expenesive especially cure II... i mean im walking around with cure all the time... and not only that but why are potions so high but where can i buy them

[zagex]

There's a magic store in port windurst, bastok markets (scribery), and port sandoria. Should be pretty cheap there. I'm guessing you're looking at the auction house and seeing it's expensive there?

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Ice Agent

besides the point but why the heck is magic so damn expenesive especially cure II... i mean im walking around with cure all the time... and not only that but why are potions so high but where can i buy them

Venturing of topic but few spells are really expensive, and Cure 2 sells for 598 - 676 gil according to Somepage. You just need to find something good to farm up and sell. Beehive chips and sleepshrooms are good to start with, and when you get to around lvl 12, Silk threads from Crawlers. You can also take up fishing which is a great way to make gil at low levels with no risk.

Potions, and all consumables on the other hand can be expensive and for EXP situations are really not worth it. They are used mainly for BCNM battle type situations.

[samarium]

Once you have gotten this far (60s) you'll see the progression to priorities as I've outlined, where your wife won't be able to do much for her PTs if she continues to view nuking more important than taking care of her party members.

I think you may have misunderstood my point! She doesn't full-out nuke, she Magic Bursts. Missing a burst 'cause of Refresh will only make battles take longer, which defeats the purpose of Refresh in the first place.

But Enfeebling definitely comes first, I have no question of that. Paralyze saves the ninja a shadow, and it saves the tank 50-100 HP. Slow, over the course of a battle, saves hundreds of HP and tons of my MP as well. Blind can nullify attacks like Paralyze can, and stuff like Bio, in the case of a PLD, saves the both of us MP. Silence... do I even need to outline for you what Silence can do for us?

The MP conservation provided by RDM extends FAR beyond Refresh.

If someone complains 'cause they're missing Refresh for OMG 5 SECONDZ REFRESH PLZ they get /pcmd kicked for being whiny little punks.

-sam

P.S.

Venturing of topic but few spells are really expensive, and Cure 2 sells for 598 - 676 gil according to Somepage.

Spells vendors are cheaper than the AH literally 99% of the time. Spells are totally INSANE on my server - Invisible, that scroll that drops from tier 2 gobs, is currently selling for 60k. 60k!!!

[Aeni]

Originally Posted by samarium

I think you may have misunderstood my point! She doesn't full-out nuke, she Magic Bursts. Missing a burst 'cause of Refresh will only make battles take longer, which defeats the purpose of Refresh in the first place.

It's all situational. Should I miss the burst and cast Cure IV on the NIN tank who has 100 hp left or should I go for the MB? However, priorities are priorities and MB is dead last in most instances.