[Icemage]

Since the RDMs here are sticklers for research, I recently acquired a Kirin's Pole and decided to do some testing regarding just how much damage Stoneskin absorbs. Known factors which affect the value are enhancing magic and MND. Apple Pie, if you see this post and have any additional information, please add and comment as well.

From a previous post made by Apple Pie on this forum, I found the following information:

240 Enhancing, 89 MND = 317 damage absorbed by Stoneskin

Here are the results of my test as Taru WHM75/BLM37, with capped Enhancing Magic skill at 230.

Test conditions were:

Cactuar in West Altepa. Too Weak to me at 75, used because I didn't want to accidentally link Cactrot Rapido in Eastern Altepa.

Took a friend (75WAR/37MNK for this test) with ~1500 max HPs with me and we just slapped cactuars around a bit until they used 1000 Needles, at which point I wrote down the damage results based on my gear configuration.

Un-assisted stats: Enhancing 230, MND 66

1000 Needles does 1000 damage, split evenly for all players and pets within its effect radius. Since there were 2 of us, the expected damage is 500. Unfortunately I didn't have access to anything handy that was Enhancing+ except a Yinyang Lorgnette, and there were no enhancing torques available at AH for sale (or I'd have bought it to test with), but here's what I got.

Related gear used:

Tinyang Lorgnette: Enhancing Magic+1
Kirin's Pole: MND+10
Devotee's Mitts: MND+5
Errant Houppelande: MND+10
Errant Slops: MND+7
Errant Pigaches: MND+5
Promise Badge: MND+5
Penitent's Rope: MND+5

Enhancing/MND/Damage Taken/Damage Absorbed:

E230/M66/D264/A236
E231/M66/D261/A239
E230/M76/D231/A269
E230/M103/D183/A317
E230/M113/D150/A350

Projecting from the E230/M66 test to the E230/M113 test, there is a difference of 114 damage for +47 MND (2.4255 damage per MND), but there appears to be something else going on there. I need to repeat this test at 103 again; I had thought I had recorded my gear configuration correctly, but looking back at the data, the data point does not fit with the rest of the test data - it is possible that there may have been some lag involved, so the server may not have seen my equip configuration change quickly enough to register the correct value.

Discussion and dissection are welcome.


Icemage

[Apple Pie]

Intersting, Icemage. Thanks for the data.

Well, based on the formula we have so far:

A > 200: ((Int [Enhancing Magic] / 3) + MND) * 3 - 190

1) E230/M66/D264/A236 = 236 --- Matched
2) E231/M66/D261/A239 = 239 --- Matched
3) E230/M76/D231/A269 = 266 --- Unmatched, although it is close.
4) E230/M103/D183/A317 = 347 --- Unmatched
5) E230/M113/D150/A350 = 377 = 350 (because it is capped at 350) --- Matched

Well, I guess there might be an another formula when MND > 100 or something because when comparing (3) to (4), we see +1 MND isn't equivalent to +3 damage absorbed

As a matter of fact, I don't have any sample with 100 MND. The closest one is E249/M91/A332 that still matches the original formula.

Hmm... I guess I need to get more samples.

[Icemage]

I'll see if I can get more datapoints later this week. It's hard to find anyone willing to sit there and just eat 1000 needles over and over for the sake of research... :sweat: But I have more than enough gear to juggle around and find the formula I think. I had forgotten that Healer's Cap is MND+4, so assuming I can find a RDM willing to kill some Cactuars, this could be a lot easier than I think.


Icemage

[Discordian]

Originally posted by Icemage
I'll see if I can get more datapoints later this week. It's hard to find anyone willing to sit there and just eat 1000 needles over and over for the sake of research... :sweat: But I have more than enough gear to juggle around and find the formula I think. I had forgotten that Healer's Cap is MND+4, so assuming I can find a RDM willing to kill some Cactuars, this could be a lot easier than I think.


Icemage

I'll make some time Icemage. I have access to rdm af2 hands, af1 tights, and an enhancing torque for somewhere around 296 enhancing skill and up to about 115 mnd or more if I use a Goblind Mushpot.

[Elusivellama]

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.max-evolution.com/rdmffxi.php

Seems interesting.

[WishMaster3K]

Ah, i was looking for that. The original poster i saw that from had it down on their site. I think i'll ask the webmaster's permission to take the code for myself and always have it in case their site goes down as well. This is the third time I've seen this iteration, so I do not know who credit goes to, but in any case, it's a nice tool.

It was made with the "Old Equations" (i suppose you can call em) and due to all the numbers and such by the original poster, Icemage, I'm not sure if he verified the equation or not

In any case, I'll glady continue to use this page you linked to in the future.

[Squerril]

Originally posted by Elusivellama
Have you guys seen this?

http://www.max-evolution.com/rdmffxi.php

Seems interesting.

Hmmm, it says with 132 enhancing skill, my phalanx reduces 7 damage, but when i fought a cactaur with 5 people (= 200 damage each) with phalanx I took 189.


EDIT: I had protect II as well, but would that reduce the remaining 4 damage?

[Icemage]

Protect does not affect 1000 needles in any way. -damage% damage might, though, though I have no idea whether the attack is magical or physical (I'm guessing physical.. must remember to test with Earth Staff...)


Icemage

[Liselle]

That calculator uses the old Phalanx formula:

(Enhancing / 7.5) - 10

...which reportedly works for higher levels, but is pretty inaccurate for lower levels, leading people to beleive that Phalanx isn't useful until 50+. This is a more accurate formula that I like better:

(Enhancing / 10) - 2

Plus the math is easier to do in your head.

[Squerril]

Originally posted by Liselle
That calculator uses the old Phalanx formula:

(Enhancing / 7.5) - 10

...which reportedly works for higher levels, but is pretty inaccurate for lower levels, leading people to beleive that Phalanx isn't useful until 50+. This is a more accurate formula that I like better:

(Enhancing / 10) - 2

Plus the math is easier to do in your head.

Yeah, that one adds up perfectly.

[XnoXzempt]

Considering the trend of the Formula...
Would it be safe to assume MND has a greater influence on Stoneskin at lower levels then Enhancing Skill? Possibly throughout the whole game even unless your able to pump your Enhancing Skill wayyy beyond 300?

[BlueFire]

Originally posted by Liselle
That calculator uses the old Phalanx formula:

(Enhancing / 7.5) - 10

...which reportedly works for higher levels, but is pretty inaccurate for lower levels, leading people to beleive that Phalanx isn't useful until 50+. This is a more accurate formula that I like better:

(Enhancing / 10) - 2

Plus the math is easier to do in your head.

Ah, there's a new formula? I didn't know this. I've been out of the game for many months now, so I haven't been checking the forums lately. Is there an updated thread with the new forumlas?

Edit: BTW, I made this script by hand with no influence from others. Other people may have made one like it, but this one is all mine.

[Karinya]

Earth Staff and Jelly Ring *do* reduce 1000 needles. (After seeing a PLD friend take 5% less damage with jelly ring, I tested earth staff myself...800 damage solo.)

But I wonder, does Earth Staff enhance Stoneskin? It is an earth based spell... has anyone tested?

[Icemage]

Got around to testing this with Jehryn(who posts here sometimes) last night. We think we have identified the correct formula. Jehryn is Hume RDM with lots of cool toys, including AF2 pants, so here were the results.

Setup: I was tanking Cactuars, again in Western Altepa, as WHM/BLM using Earth Staff. Jehryn started wearing no gear, then added items as we tested the effect of Enhancing Magic and MND on his Stoneskin.

His base stats are 65MND and 256 Enhancing Magic.

Control case - No gear:
E256/M65/D240/A260

+15 Enhancing Magic:
E271/M65/D225/A275

+3MND +30 Enhancing Magic:
E286/M68/D201/A299

+5MND:
E256/M70/D225/A275

+19MND +30 Enhancing Magic:
E286/M84/D153/A347

+20MND +30 Enhancing Magic:
E286/M85/D150/A350

+25MND +15 Enhancing Magic:
E271/M90/D150/A350

Conclusion: Somewhere between 231 and 256 Enhancing Magic, the rate of return of added Enhancing Magic changes from 3:1 to 1:1. I suspect that it's at some convenient number like 250 Enhancing.

Looks like at all levels, MND always gives +3 damage absorbed.

So for RDMs at level 75 wiith capped Enhancing Magic skill, every point of MND gives 3 damage absorbed, while each Enhancing Magic gives only 1 (though AF1 gloves and AF2 pants both give 15 enhancing magic, so this isn't to be ignored).

Curious observation:
Promise Badge is more effective for end-game RDMs than Enhancing Torque when casting Stoneskin (though not when casting Phalanx).

EDIT: Earth Staff did not affect the strength of MY stoneskin during this test in any way, though it did, as noted, reduce my base damage taken from 500 down to 400 (20% damage reduced).

EDIT 2: Assuming the 1:1 conversion for Enhancing Magic kicks in at 250+ (need to find a way to test this...), here's a hypothetical formula for calculating Stoneskin strength:

For Enhancing Magic > 250
MNDx3 + Enhancing Magic - 201 = Damage Absorbed

For Enhancing Magic 250 or lower:
MNDx3 + Enhancing Magicx3 - 649 = Damage Absorbed

Icemage

[WishMaster3K]

Holy Altana, Icemage, thats awsome work you got there. I'll send Apple Pie a /t and notify him to check this out. dont expect him till the weekend tho ^^. Those silly programmers and their 20 hour shifts.

Now all I have to do is re-read the post to understand and absorb what you actually figured out